Jim Corbett vs Jack Sharkey

Gene Tunney on James J Corbett
"Fleet-footed, brainy and quick in his reflexes. . .introduced class to the prize ring. . .I sincerely believe that he might have defeated Joe Louis in a 15-round bout if they could have met at their peaks. . ."

 

The problem with arguing Tunney didn't want to annoy people by criticizing Corbett, is that he was happy to criticize Jeffries and Johnson

 

I don't disagree with Tunney here. Gene could be a sharp critic, he liked the boxer movers much better than the punchers as they were more like him. It didn't hurt that Corbett was Irish, same as Tunney.

12 rounds or less, you could argue that Corbett outside of a DQ due to his cornerman entering the ring is un-defeated under the age of 37.

Corbett took a decent punch. Choynski, McCoy, Jackson, and Sharkey landed cleanly hard shots. He only took the count from Fitzsimmons and all time puncher, and Jeffries.

 

You were already shown Corbett had 35 listed fights on wikipedia. I asked you to tell me which one did not happen and as usual I get silence in return. Are you going to show me which boxing historical list from 1930-1960 has Jack Sharkey over Corbett, of do we have a double duck?

Jackson's mobility in the fight was fine. There is no mention in the news read that he was limited. The injury you are referring to happened two weeks prior to the fight. Try reading the fight reports. You choose to be dishonest.

I listed 63 fights where Corbett was judged as 59-0-3 prior to facing Fitzsimmons with names and dates.

But keep believing Corbett only had 18 fights, it so suits you.

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_J._Corbett[/url]

 

Khaosai Galaxy

 

An opinion that must be respected - since he obviously must have watched a lot of Corbett footage, that has since been lost!

 

Jackson had broken ribs and was damaged. Either way this matched showed Corbett's quality, as Jackson was very good.

How good, to put in terms the poster Mcvey might understand, George Siler said Jackson was better than Johnson by long odds, and Sam Fitzpatrick, a trainer for both Peter Jackson and Jack Johnson, stated that of the two, Jackson was the superior boxer.

Not one fight report I've read says Jackson was suffering from an ankle injury and it limited his mobility.

[url]https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/mg874n/this-was-a-man-the-forgotten-story-of-australian-boxing-pioneer-peter-jackson[/url]

 

Agreed, given that Corbett's last win took place when Gene was three years old. (LOL)

 

Gene drew the color line. Johnson was the only black champ who was also universally despised by guys from Tunney's era. And Jeffries lost to him. Of course, Gene criticized both.

He praised Corbett after they both spent the day posing for photos and Corbett showed off his clunky moves. As I said earlier, Gene was being kind. He had manners.

Corbett was from a different era and a different spot. Jack Sharkey destroys him.

 

Okay, now that it's clear Mcvey is running from my questions I'll reply. The pattern is the same. He calls me out, I give him the information. They he hides as he can not answer my questions as they obliterate his biased thinking. To point, I have 50+ lists from historians, fighters, judges, magazine punchers and authors on heavyweight boxing. Not one of them has Jack Sharkey over give Corbett. From 1940-1977, here are just a few. I also urge you to reply to post #135 on page 9. Jack Sharkey was suspect. He lost a lot, was floored at least 15 times, and should have never been champion, only a bad decision made him one.

With no further ado


Dumb Dan Morgan (circa 1950)
Fight manager, trainer
Quoted in: The Encyclopedia of World Boxing Champions, John D. McCallum (pp. 46-
47)
1-Jim Jeffries
2-John L. Sullivan
3-Jack Johnson
4-Bob Fitzsimmons

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6-Gene Tunney
7-Jack Dempsey
8-Joe Louis
Note: This list represents Morgan’s ranking of the heavyweight champions. He was
also quoted as saying: “I think Sam [Langford] would finish Joe [Louis] in about six or
seven rounds . . .”. So, I assume that Morgan ranked Langford somewhere above Louis
and below Jeffries, whom Morgan often called the greatest heavyweight of all-time.



Jim Jennings (1956)
Sportswriter, NY Daily Mirror
[revealed in private correspondence with IBRO historian Tracy G. Callis]
1-Jack Johnson
2-Jim Jeffries-
3-Bob Fitzsimmons
4-Jack Dempsey

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6-Gene Tunney
7-Joe Louis
8-Rocky Marciano


Nat Fleischer (1958)
Publisher, sportswriter, author
Quoted in: The 1986-1987 Ring Record Book and Boxing Encyclopedia, edited by
Herbert G. Goldman (p. 1070)
1-Jack Johnson
2-Jim Jeffries
3-Bob Fitzsimmons
4-Jack Dempsey

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6-Joe Louis
7-Sam Langford
8-Gene Tunney
9-Max Schmeling
10-Rocky Marciano


George A. Barton (1962)
Sportswriter, The Minneapolis Tribune
Quoted in: The Ring (December 1962, p. 10)
1-Jack Johnson
2-Jim Jeffries
3-Bob Fitzsimmons
4-Jack Dempsey
5-Joe Louis

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7-Gene Tunney
8-John L. Sullivan
9-Rocky Marciano
10-Max Baer

Harry Grayson (circa mid-1960s?)
NEA Sports Editor-Columnist in Detroit
[revealed in private correspondence with IBRO historian Tracy G. Callis]
1-Jack Dempsey
2-Jack Johnson
3-Jim Jeffries
4-John L. Sullivan
5-Gene Tunney
6-Bob Fitzsimmons

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8-Joe Louis

R.A. Haldane (1967)
Champions & Challengers, R.A. Haldane (pp. 96-100)
1-Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey
Note: Haldane’s rankings represented what he considered to be the weight of authority
up to that time (he quotes the opinions of numerous experts). He honorably mentions
(chronologically): John L. Sullivan, Peter Jackson, Jim Corbett, Bob Fitzsimmons, Jim
Jeffries, Gene Tunney, Rocky Marciano, Joe Louis, and Muhammad Ali. [He lists
Fitzsimmons as the #1 light-heavyweight of all-time.]


Charlie Rose (1968)
Boxer, trainer, manager
Quoted in: The 1986-1987 Ring Record Book and Boxing Encyclopedia, edited by
Herbert G. Goldman (p. 1070)
1-Sam Langford
2-Jack Johnson
3-Jack Dempsey
4-Joe Louis
5-Jim Jeffries
6-Gene Tunney
7-Sam McVey
8-Rocky Marciano

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10-Max Baer
Note: Rose ranked Bob Fitzsimmons the #1 light-heavyweight of all-time and did not,
therefore, consider him for his heavyweight rankings.


David Willoughby (1970)
Author of The Super Athletes
1-Jim Jeffries
2-Jack Dempsey
3-Bob Fitzsimmons
4-Jack Johnson

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6-Gene Tunney
7-Joe Louis
8-Rocky Marciano


Reader Poll (1974)
World Boxing (1974 Annual, pp. 30-39)
1-Joe Louis (2527)
2-Jack Dempsey (2168)
3-Rocky Marciano (2161)
4-Jack Johnson (2083)
5-Muhammad Ali (1857)
6-Joe Frazier (1509)
7-Gene Tunney (1431)
8-Jim Jeffries (1379)
9-Sonny Liston (626)
10-Ezzard Charles (543)
11-Max Baer (484)
12-Bob Fitzsimmons (461)
13-

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(413)
14-John L. Sullivan (409)
15-Floyd Patterson (287)
16-Max Schmeling (279)
17-Sam Langford (205)
18-Jersey Joe Walcott (114)
19-Jess Willard (39)
20-Tommy Burns (36)
21-Jim Braddock (30)
22-Jack Sharkey (27)
23-Primo Carnera (20)
24-Luis Firpo (10)
25-Peter Jackson, Jerry Quarry (9)
27-Joe Choynski, Jimmy Ellis (8)
29-Oscar Bonavena, George Foreman (4)
31-Harry Wills, George Chuvalo (3)
33-Ingemar Johansson, Marvin Hart (2)

The Ring Editors (Nat Loubet, Editor-n-Chief) (1975)
The Ring (March 1975, pp. 28-30)
1-Joe Louis
2-Jack Dempsey
3-Jim Jeffries
4-Jack Johnson
5-Rocky Marciano
6-Gene Tunney
7-Bob Fitzsimmons

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9-Muhammad Ali
10-Joe Frazier


Survey of Old-Timers; (1975)
The Encyclopedia of World Boxing Champions , John D. McCallum (pp. 322-323)
1-Jim Jeffries
2-Jack Johnson
3-Bob Fitzsimmons

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5-Jack Dempsey
6-John L. Sullivan
7-Gene Tunney
8-Joe Louis
9-Rocky Marciano
10-Muhammad Ali
Note: In his book, McCallum states, without explaining, that these ratings are “based on
a survey of old-timers”.



Richard B. Stockton (1977)
Who Was the Greatest?, Richard B. Stockton (p. 95)


1-Joe Louis
2-Rocky Marciano
3-Sam Langford
4-Jack Dempsey
5-Muhammad Ali
6-Jim Jeffries
7-Joe Frazier
8-Gene Tunney

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10-Jack Johnson
Honorable Mention: Peter Jackson, Joe Jeannette, Tom Sharkey, Sam McVey, Harry
Wills, Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott, Sonny Liston.


>>>Trust me when I say I could list a lot more. Probably 15 more with Corbett's name on it. Not one of the 50+ archives I have on has Jack Shakrey's name on it as I glanced through them, They all say the same thing, Corbett was good and in their rankings. No mention at all of Jack Sharkey.

If you want modern day Examples from the 2000's, I can show you where Corbett is listed and Jack Sharkey is not rather easily. You can make up your own mind. Personally speaking when the field ( especially respected members from it ) says one thing and I think another, I think again.

Cheers.

 

Most of the fights listed on Wikipedia were exhibitions and even amateur fights. No one is sure what was real or which were exhibitions ... because it was a different sport back then. Short rounds. Long rests. Drinking between rounds. Bouts held in fields. In barns. Three-rounders. Four-rounders. Boxing exhibitions when Corbett was an instructor against his students and wrestling exhibitions at the club where he worked later added to his pro boxing matches.

The era Jack Sharkey became champion in four decades later was totally different.

[url]http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/corbett.htm[/url]

This is starting to get the feel of the thread where someone thought every time a wasted John L. Sullivan punched another drunk in the face in a bar, it was a heavyweight title defense. (LOL)

 

Tunney never saw Corbett in a fight.

 

that's some volume of documentation, very important for Researchers... you must be a Collector.

 

Thanks for proving my point as box rec is missing some of those fights on the link you provided. Yes the sport was different, but you can not say it didn't include two people with gloves in a fight. Exhibitions are often listed.

I just dawned on me..Sharkey is famous for giving Dempsey a pasting until he was fouled. Perhaps why he has sone many fans here ( same as Firpo ), but drilling down Jack Sharkey just wasn't that good, lost a lot, was down a lot, and should never have been champion, the judges gave him that over Schemling.

 

You might say that. There are much better collectors than I, but I do have some uncommon fights, and information.