Jim Corbett vs Jack Sharkey

Jason Thomas,

"the average American"

The actual stats are my post directly above. But 1830 is not the last part of the 19th century and alcohol consumption declined severely. It seems to have gone from 7.1 gallons in 1830 to 2.5 gallons in 1900. It is about 2.3 gallons today.

But what I disagreed about was the water bit that you brought in, using Burns as a source. Actually in the first third of his documentary on Prohibition, "A Nation of Drunkards" which I just re-watched, Burns mentions water once. It is related that 19th century temperance leader Frances Willard led a movement to have water fountains available in towns so thirsty men would not have to go to saloons.

A sort of anthem for the temperance movement was a song called "The Old Oaken Bucket" which celebrated drinking well water brought up with the title bucket.

As for boxers drinking alcohol, it certainly happened, but I don't know about most fights, or any Corbett took part in. In his fight with Kilrain, Adam Pollock says Sullivan was given some whiskey before the 44th round which caused him to vomit. Nothing was said about Sullivan ever drinking alcohol again. Why would he if he vomited? Mike Donovan stated that Kilrain drank a lot of alcohol over the second half of the fight. Donovan believed that this allowed him to continue with the finish fight.

Why did boxers drink alcohol during fights? Not because safe water wasn't available, but because alcohol dulled the pain from injuries, which apparently was believed by some to allow a man to last longer when hurting.

As for the subject of this thread, I think boxing progressed a great deal from the 1890's to the 1920's. That said, Corbett looks very quick moving around the ring on the limited film we have. Sharkey looks pretty bad on film at times, such as his mediocre effort against Tom Heeney. I pick Sharkey, but this is not an out fight. I can see Corbett proving too fast for Sharkey over a ten round or fifteen round fight, and I'm not sure Sharkey has the punch Fitz or Jeff had to turn it around.

All this with the caveat that it is difficult to judge quickness off these jerky old hand-cranked films

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One thing, though, is there any evidence that Corbett had much of a punch. It took him 21 rounds to get an over weight Sullivan, and most of his other KO victims were smallish men.

 

"The best man won Fitz is the real champion and he will surely beat Jeffries,I never knew anybody could hit such blows". Tom Sharkey speaking in Cohens Hotel after being ko'd by Fitsimmons for the second time.
Source. I Fought Them All by Greg Lewis and Moira Sharkey.page 231.
Jeffries unequivocally stated nobody hit him as hard as Choynski did I posted the quote 3 or 4 times.

Here is another source with it in.
Jeffries own autobiography!
Although Jeff claims he dropped Choynski with a left hook to the neck, he also claims that Joe scored once with a right that knocked his lower lip between his front two teeth, an injury which required a lip incision to relieve Jeff of the pain. Jeffries states that was the hardest punch he's ever taken. Some disagreed with the decision, believing that Jeffries did enough forcing to earn the nod, but Joe was so impressive in the science he displayed in the ring that the referee gave him part of the honors in ruling the affair a draw.

Source: My Life & Battles by James J. Jeffries


Corbett concurred ,and Johnson's quote is so famous I can type it from memory.Jeffries had a solid wallop and Fitz could knock your brains out,but Choynski could plumb paralyze you".
NB these are not MY QUOTES they are those of the boxers those names are affixed to them. I know you have difficulty reading and absorbing facts so I repeat .
THESE ARE NOT MY QUOTES, NEITHER ARE THEY MY OPINIONS ,THEY ARE THOSE OF THE BOXERS WHO GAVE THEIR TESTIMONY.

 

1. Sharkey is talking about Fitzsimmons, not Choynski DUH. Where does Sharkey say Choynski hit him the hardest? Take the BS claim away, you are mistaken.

2. Jeffries said Choynski could hit harder than most heavyweights. Key word most.

3. Johnson is all over the map. Never take his word, and if you do I've got some quotes for you. Ya want to hear what he said about Ketchel

Answer this question, and please stop running form them for a change!

Who the heck did Choynski KO besides Jack Johnson? Not Fitz, Corbett, or Jeffries. Not Ruhlin or Armstrong. Not Goddard or Maher. Not McCoy, O'brien or Hart. That's 10 men he fought, sometimes more than once that he failed to stop! If he was the hardest hitter of the times, he'd have plenty of knockouts. That's not the case. His KO% is a mediocre 48.15

While I think Choynski hit hard for his weight, he's clearly not in Fitzsimmons class. He didn't KO men of class like Jeffries did either.

 

Nope Jeffries stated Choynski hit him harder than anyone, he said it in an article with Fleischer in the Ring and he said it in his auto biography which I just posted ,you can deny it all you want it will still be there in black and white. You're asking me to defend an opinion I haven't expressed I've told you TWICE in capital letters, that those are the opinions of the men that fought him not mine.Can you not get someone to explain it to you?
Another endorsement from Jeffries below.
"To this day, I can’t figure out how a runt like him could hurt so damned bad,” declared Jeffries some years later. “During our scrap, he clipped me with a right that landed high on my cheekbone. I figured my whole face was caved in, and when I tried to feel what was left with my hands, there wasn’t any sensation at all. That was the hardest punch I ever took and had it landed a little lower I would have been knocked out for the first time in my life.”

DeWitt Van Court, boxing instructor of the Los Angeles Athletic Club rated Choynski as the #4 All-Time Light Heavyweight and commented about him (1926 pp 105 108), “He was a remarkable fighter who never considered his opponent’s weight or size. Joe was one of the hardest hitters of the ring. A fine boxer, very game and fast, but lacked the stamina to take punches. It was Joe Choynski who hit Jim Jeffries the hardest blow he ever received. He fought for over twenty years, meeting all comers.Tracy Callis, whom you were hyping the other day.

I think his left hook was much more effective than either Dempsey's or Louis's" Jack Johnson

 

Sharkey doesn't have the mental fortitude to handle Jim's mind games, I see Corbett winning a snoozer.

 

I find Corbett to be a marvelous athlete with terrific speed, decent size and in his prime excellent stamina but style wise he was an in-between generation work in progress ... I don't see him being sophisticated or polished enough. Some of the footage of him with the stiff arms and round house punching is painful to watch.