Lennox Lewis (1999) vs. George Foreman (1973)

Lewis also has the style, chin, and stamina to beat foreman(who regularly gassed). Combine that with foreman not having the size advantage he had in most of his fights and foreman loses.

 

Agree

Agree

Agree

We are talking about a 73 Foreman, therefore there is no proof he had a better chin than a 99 Lewis

Wrong.
Size: Clear advantage Lewis - an extra 2 inches in height and 10-20 pounds in weight.

Agree

Agree.

Agree

Agree

No definitive proof for that.

Jab: Lewis. He was more precise.

Agree

Agree.

 

Tell me how can you make your bones thicker, when you are 35+ years old. I'd love to know the method...

 

The idea that old Foreman who was a decent contender and mediocre champion is better than 1970s Foreman who was top 5 HW ever is the funniest thing I've read in this thread so far (and that's telling!)

Keep in mind that I love old Foreman and his style suits my taste more than his younger version.

 

I think I pick a prime Lewis to beat almost everyone...except a prime foreman. Lewis leaves himself to open at times and he wouldn’t last long taking foreman shots. That being said there’s a chance George gets knocked out if he doesn’t take out Lewis early. He also left himself to wide open

 

Now this I can agree with that Lewis would take Foreman very seriously and become extremely cautious. Look at how cautious he was with a washed up Tyson and the 1 dimensional Tua.

I don't know who wins but Lewis would not show up out of shape or overconfident leaving himself open. I'd still be worried about Foreman's overhand right and body shots, a tall heavy guy like Lennox isn't built to endure body punishment and will still be vulnerable to looping right hands.

He had no choice because Ali couldn't use his legs. He realized that Foreman was too good at cutting off the ring and changed tactics.

So if the fastest heavyweight of all time couldn't circle around Foreman, how is Lennox's big ass going to outbox him? You do know Foreman was superb at parrying jabs right?

I'm very confused here. You are acknowledging Foreman was a bulky guy with thick bones and that he had a granite chin but you're still not sure if he was more durable?

Lennox was lean and built like a shooting guard before he got lazy and gained a bunch of belly fat. He used to be much faster and had a higher punch output in the amateurs and in his young pro days.

Being stopped more times doesn't always mean one has a weaker chin, but it does matter when you consider that Foreman got hit tons of times as a fat old man and never hit the canvas once. Your chin does not get better with age.

Look at common opponents.

Holyfield rocked Tyson multiple times, dropped him, and stopped him. He nailed Foreman for 12 rounds with a huge barrage of blows and couldnt put a dent in him. Holyfield also said Foreman was by far the most durable opponent he faced.

Briggs scored an unofficial knockdown on Lennox (ropes held him up) and even claimed Briggs was the hardest hitter he faced. Briggs couldn't put a dent on Foreman. Foreman never mentions Briggs as the hardest hitter he faced.

 

Young is a smaller slippery boxer. Lewis isn't. Lewis's size works against him because it makes him more hittable.

No trouble whatsoever? Come on. Holyfield (the past it version who was gasping for air after throwing combo's, even Manny Steward, Lewis's trainer admitted Holyfield was past it), cracked him with a hard left and was too old and slow to follow through. Briggs nailed him and had him in trouble but was too limited to follow through. Mercer landed at will, Marovic did too, McCall stopped him. All of these guy were between 6'2 and 6'3.

Foreman always had a great chin. Lyle was a hard hitter who caught a rusty Foreman and dropped him but Foreman got off the floor to win, something Lewis never did. Ali wore him out through accumulation of punches.

 

Wow, where has the match up been over the years, certainly put the cat amonst the pidgeons, and sparked a good vibraint, exciting debate.
No middle ground on this fight, your pick wins decisevly, no room for dissent it seems.
I must say this fight has got me thinking real hard, normally I can see a winner fairly early after reading the post, not this time !!!

Gun to my head, don,t see Lewis being able to contain or keep at bay a Foreman of that year, or almost any HW down the ages ( says a lot for MA that he did ) think it will be a almighty slugfest while it lasts ( not unlike Foreman/ Lyle ) but as much as I admire LL, and I do a lot, its Foreman I think will prevail ultamately .

 

I agree,, George's skill at cutting the ring off is very underrated . He'll make Lennox fight and George stops him, won't be easy though.

 

It's simple biology. A man matures after the age of 30. Your body gets a bit bigger, meaning you're bones get thicker and your shoulders and torso get a bit wider. etc

 

Foreman was nowhere near as skilled a boxer as Holyfield, Mercer.
I already told you Lewis did not take many opponents seriously.

 

We'll respectively agree to disagree

Foreman was an expert at trapping his opponent in the ring. Even a 32 year old Ali (who was still faster than any version of Lewis) admitted he had to fight off the ropes.

 

Ali was not that fast anymore when he faced Foreman.

What part of my post didn't you read ?!?
I'm acknowledging a 90s Foreman had all those attributes, not a 70s Foreman.
Read the title of the thread again, it says a 73 Foreman vs a 99 Lewis.

All boxers were leaner when they were younger, it's simple biology. Ali weighed around 200 pounds when he was young, he was 30 pounds heavier at times in his 30s. Even with the most extreme training, he'd never be able to go down to that weight again. As I explained to another poster, a man reaches physical maturity between the age of 30 up around the age of 45. That's when you are at your strongest. You body gets a bit bigger and wider and your bones are thicker. The downside is that you loose reflexes and speed.

Again, look at the title of the thread. It's about a 73 Foreman, so what he did in the 90s in irrelevant.
FYI, a 70s Ali also had a much better chin than a 60s Ali, it's simple biology.

Holyfield was far bigger when he faced Tyson than when he faced Foreman.
Tyson was washed up when he faced Holyfield.
And Holyfield fought a big 90s Foreman, not a 73 Foreman, so your example is irrelevant.
It's like saying Ali was a crap boxer cause he couldn't do **** against Holmes.

Briggs simply caught Lewis off balance, and Briggs was faster than Foreman.

 

Foreman was indeed good at cutting off the ring, but that's not exactly the boxing skills I was talking about. I was referring more to the ability to land punches effectively, which Foreman clearly wasn't better at than Holyfield and Mercer.

And although this is irrelevant to the outcome of this hypothetical fight, I'd like to point out that a 32 year old Ali was not faster than an early 90's Lewis.

 

Foreman said no one hit him as fast as Ali did in his entire career.

Ali still had decent footwork but foreman cut off the ring. He was certainly still faster and more mobile than a fat 240 pound Lewis.

You're saying Foreman wasn't bulky with thick bones in his late 20's but got thicker bones in his 40's???

You do know Foreman cut weight in his prime right? It's part of why he had stamina issues, he would dry out and get down to 220+ for speed. He was a very bulky guy in his prime too.

So now you have to distinguish between physical prime and career prime. Lennox certainly wasn't in his physical prime in his mid 30's but that was when he had some of his best wins and his skill was the sharpest.

My point was if you're picking the older but more skilled Lennox to fight a prime Foreman, he will be able to hang with him in terms of brute strength but if he doesn't end things within 4-6 rounds, he is going to be exhausted and in for a gruelling night since all that mass and decreased speed means he will get tired extremely quickly in a war trying to keep the relentless Foreman off of him. Like you said, basic biology.

The younger Lennox actually had a better chance since he was faster and had more energy.

That isn't biological at all. Your chin doesn't get better with age. Everything points to the opposite when you look at fighters in their late 30's and 40's getting brutally stopped.

Foreman was still the same human being. You can't lift weights or take steroids to take a punch better. Foreman didn't have chin issues in either career, his problem in his younger days was neglecting defense, arrogance, and overexerting himself. He had nearly 50 pro fights in his 1st career and only had 1 stoppage loss due to punching himself out and getting countered all night by dozens of right crosses and flurries. That doesn't sound like someone with durability issues to me. Most heavyweights would have gotten stopped in less than 5 rounds fighting at the absurd pace he did in hot outdoor weather eating right hands like chips.

Holyfield was even more shopworn than Tyson when he beat Tyson! Holyfield got brutally stopped by Bowe and had 3 wars with him. That's why people were picking Tyson to win. Did you not keep up with boxing back then? Holyfield was a much slower boxer with worse reflexes and didn't let his hands go nearly as much.

The Ali vs Holmes comparison is inaccurate since Ali did almost nothing and got blasted from pillar to post then retired. Tyson would go on to have several more fights and won most of them.

You're shifting the goal post. Lennox knees buckled and he launched halfway across the ring. He said Briggs hit him harder than anyone. You can tap dance around this but you can't avoid it. Briggs couldn't do anything to foreman and chose to box around him. Morrison went right after Lennox and Ruddock with no fear but was terrified of a fat old Foreman and couldn't put a dent im him. Alex Stewart tried to slug with Foreman, got dropped, and got on his bicycle and ran, pot shotting and throwing flurries to stay away from him.

Since you want to use prime Foreman, how about Frazier? He spent 99.99% of his career fearlessly swarming guys and wearing them down with his power and pressure. In the rematch he backed off and tried to box and circle Foreman. Lyle, known for being a brave slugger who previously went toe to toe with shavers, cautiously circled around Foreman the 1st round and avoided mixing things up with him until he managed to score the knock down. He didn't count on Foreman having a huge heart and determination and literally ran out of gas trying to finish Foreman who shook off the Cobb webs and pounded a much more cautious and defensive Lyle into the corner and into the canvas.

Are You noticing a pattern here? Everyone thought they could hang with Foreman until they actually got hit by him and quickly changed tactics. In every. Single. Fight.

Lennox is NOT anywhere near as durable as Foreman and would have no choice but to try to stop him or he'd get rag dolled in a war. He didn't have the 2 fisted power or chin to stand there and slug, and its the late 90's Lennox he wouldn't have the stamina and speed to box him or go toe to toe in a war. He would either need to tire foreman out and take him out before he gets tired or use a very boring spoiling style to win on points.