Lennox Lewis (1999) vs. George Foreman (1973)

So as usual, size is everything?

 

Blockheaded, unable to grasp the content and ready to get schooled, as usual ?

 

You didn't mention any boxer with the size and boxing skills of Foreman. ToneyF***U mentioned two factors - size and boxing ability. None of the Lewis opponents you mentioned was as good boxer as Foreman.

If you want to talk only about sizes, then I can mention:

Chuck Wepner 6'5 and 221 lbs
Jack O'Harrollan 6'6 and 235 lbs
Gerry Cooney 6'6 and 231 lbs
Mike Jameson 6'4 and 233 lbs
Lou Savarese 6'5 and 230 lbs
Shannon Briggs 6'4 and 227 lbs

 

Ruddock: guy who loaded up for one shot over and over, had a suspect chin, terrible ring IQ. Terrible balance. Neglected his jab and just about everything else. He had a powerful left uppercut, George did the same thing with both hands. And had hooks. And body shots. And a right hand.

Bruno: an oaf with a glass jaw who panicked whenever he got hit. A cautious boxer puncher unless the opponent was hurt. I'll grant that he might have had similar raw power and both had thudding jabs but their mentalities and approaches were complete opposites.

Morrison: another glass jawed guy with 1 arm for the most part. 1 dimensional other than the night he became a track runner against George himself.

Golota: more of a traditional boxer. Had a fairly upright European stance. Not very durable. Was an idiot with severe mental problems who fouled himself out when he was on the verge of winning. Twice. Also a quitter.

Briggs: kiiinda similar. Both had stamina issues and had 2 fisted power and a solid chins, but the similarities end there. Briggs didn't have his jab, his ability to cut off the ring, wasn't as good of a finisher, couldn't parry, I could go on.

Rahman: was really a boxer puncher. Had power in the right hand but not so much the left.

So You were only slightly close 1/6. Pretty terrible comparisons. You do know boxing is more than just height and weight, right? Otherwise Chuck Wepner was "similar" to Riddick Bowe. None of these guys resembled George in his actual style or qualities other than hitting hard and being similar height.

I never claimed George faced someone similar to Lewis either so you're honestly arguing with yourself if that's why you brought this up. I stated the opposite in fact.

 

Holyfield was stronger than Holmes but they were the same weight, there wasn’t a 20lbs weight difference, a 190lbs Holyfield is not stronger than Holmes, but a 215lbs Holyfield is

 

Lewis would work behind his jab. By "not moving that much" I meant compared to guys like Tyson, Frazier, Holyfield, etc.

Yes, Lewis will get tired, but so will Foreman.

You're omitting one major thing: Foreman had a 10 year lay-off period, that gave his body more than enough time to recover. Plus, he was rarely hit and hurt in his first career, so he didn't have almost any wear and tear at all when he came back. And even in those additional fights when he came back, he rarely faced elite opponents that hurt him. Most of the fights were against bums that had no chance against him.

Ali was never a strong puncher and Frazier barely landed any significant punches. Plus Frazier's punching power is vastly overrated, he's nowhere near the top 10.

We kinda can.

In a lot of ways, a lot better.

Immovable object my arse. Lyle floored him countless times, it was an even fight.

Lyle was not the most skilled boxer out there. Plus he fancied his chances against Foreman and almost bested him.

He wasn't out-boxed effortlessly, but he was out-boxed nonetheless. Young and Morrison proved that.

 

Foreman was not very skilled, his asset was his power.

 

Of course, you're much more skilled

 

I'll ask you again for a single fight or round where someone managed to keep foreman at bay with a jab.

A flabby man in his 30's will get tired faster than a man in his 20's if they're fighting at an intense pace.

That's still 50 damn fights plus an amateur career. Being inactive for literally a decade makes your muscle memory, recovery, and toughness much worse. Nothing that you are proposing about Foreman's chin improving is based on any sort of actual scientific basis. Feel free to prove me wrong with some actual research tho.

Both Ali and Frazier had decent power. Both of them stopped several ranked opponents in the top 10, which is more impressive than knocking out a strong of tomato cans and journeymen.

The point was that younger foreman recovered from being rocked or hurt much faster. It was like he was on an adrenaline rush. Old foreman absorbed single shots a little better but when he was hurt or getting hit by a barrage he hid in his shell.

Lol ok then foreman has zero ko losses since he was at his worst in that fight and fought with a horrible game plan with zero advice from his corner.

You are literally cherry picking whatever is convenient for you with every response.

Results say otherwise.

Old foreman had better defense, used his jab more consistently, and was more patient. That's about it. He was durable but slow as hell and that's why he kept getting outboxed. The facts are he was rather mediocre when he stepped up in class and often lost other than his hail Mary ko against Moore. He lost to 3/4 of the best fighters he faced.

In contrast young foreman terrorized the division and completely demolished 4/6 of the best fighters he faced. He was better and more consistent at body punching, cut the ring off better, was a better finisher, threw better hooks, better combination puncher, better at parrying shots.

What would you call an opponent who seemingly gets stronger and angrier the more you hit him and never backs off?

Young fought a foreman who had lost his confidence and had a new trainer. He had nightmares about Zaire and didn't want to open up for fear of gassing after he had young hurt.

The Morrison fight was against an old foreman. So are you once again picking and choosing when to use old Foreman?

 

Can you beat Foreman as well? Foreman had skills...defense just wasn’t one of them. He was great at cutting off a ring great jab

 

I’m going with Lewis here, but foreman definitely had skills

 

Foreman was actually very skillfull.

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A Wild Slugger doesn't get so many ranked guys out of there without skills.
Also this guy has one of the most Powerful Jabs ever.

Harder than W. Klitschkos.

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I pick Foreman by Knockout.

 

I agree with you on jab and the ability to cut the ring, but I was referring more to being able to land combos and punching accuracy, neither being a big asset for Foreman.

 

I never said just a jab, I said Lewis would work behind his jab, he'll use his right to keep Foreman at bay whenever he comes close.
Lewis's right has more than enough power to hurt Foreman, he'll even KO him if he catches him right.

In most cases, that is true, but in this instance, not so much. Young Foreman had stamina issues and was not used to fight a lot of rounds.

 

Show me a fight where someone successfully kept foreman at Bay. They can be working behind the jab and using whatever. If it never happened in more than 80 fights its hard to envision it suddenly happening here.

Wouldn't matter if he turned it into a slug fest. Lennox doesn't have the durability for that.
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Well actually he was both very accurate and a good combination puncher. He just doesn't look pretty when he punches. You seem to be basing this primarily on the Ali fight, a guy who was exceptionally good at slipping and rolling with punches and who had amazing head movement. Lennox did not have any of those qualities. Every other opponent prime Foreman faced got nailed pretty damn hard and were often stopped brutally.