Jack Johnson would be wrecked by RJJ and you're coping if you think otherwise

Ketchel not at his best? The man died at age 24. What you are saying does not make sense. He trained for Johnson, didn't he? If he was sick, ill or injured, that's news to me.

Ketchel's performance here is awful. I can see many middleweight doing better the he did. He simply lacked skills.

 

It's know fact that Ketchel aged poorly due to his lifestyle. It's visible that he struggled a lot just before the death.

I can't see any MW beating prime Jack Johnson. He was way too strong for them.

 

If true it makes you wonder if the whole fight wasn't on the level.

 

And this is where I'm in full agreement, if that shot that knocked out Ketchel lands on Jones, it knocks him clean out, as you say.

 

Probably, but Jones threw several punches that could have knocked down / out Johnson too. I think the opponent, who was very small with no defense had a lot to do with the knockout.

 

Probably indeed.

As I said I was leaning towards Jones originally but you've swayed me.

 

Ketchel doesn't appear to possess Jones athleticism or skillset and is a naturally smaller man. Jones entered the ring around 180 during his prime.

 

Ketchel seems to be very athletic.

 

You must make your own mind up about that.

 

Your running from me again.... What if I show you the press at hand said Johnson was dazed by the punch, and Johnson himself admitted he was hurting to the press right after the fight? Would you learn and change or not? That's what I want to know. 3rd time asking.

Also, I have a testimonial from the referee.

Well, we're waiting.

 

70's Ketchel was in his prime ( age 23 ) for this fight, I don't see how you can say otherwise. Are you suggesting Jack Johnson beat a washed up Ketchel?

I see three super middleweights showing how suspect Johnson really was. Ring facts

One knocked him out. ( Choynski ) Another out pointed him according to primary sources ( O'brien ) and a third floored and hurt him ( Ketchel ) So there are three examples of middle weight beating him, or exposing him. The only reply is, yes they did.

Why couldn't Hagler, Monzon, Jones or SRR Robinson do the same as they were roughly the same weight as the above three who did it upon entering the ring? I still think Ketchel was the least skilled middleweight champion on film.

• The Associated Press reported on October 17, 1909:

The climax of the fight was crowded into 34 seconds. At the beginning of the last round there was little to judge from in preceding rounds to pick the winner. The men met in the center of the ring, clinched and wrestled to Johnson's corner. The negro broke way, and, poising himself, dashed at Ketchel, who sprang to meet him. Ketchel drove his right at the black's lowered head. Johnson ducked and the blow landed behind the ear. He stumbled, fell and stretched out on the floor, landing heavily.
Ketchel backed toward the ropes with a smile glimmering on his battered, blood-streamed face. Johnson rose slowly, as though dazed. As he straightened to his knees his eyes encountered Ketchel's, and with the fury of a wild beast he leaped across the ten feet that separated them. His right fist shot to the white man's jaw. The left crashed to the stomach and the right swung again with the speed of lightning, catching Ketchel's head as he reeled back from the onslaught. Ketchel dropped in a heap, and Johnson, unable to stop his rush, sprawled across his beaten rival's legs and fell full length himself.
The negro sprang to his feet with a bound, but Ketchel was out. Once, as the seconds were counted over him, he feebly moved his arms and rolled his head. He gave not another sign of life, and his seconds picked him from the floor, barely conscious. Johnson was still dazed. He clung to the ropes and looked about him in a bewildered way. The crowd broke into murmurings and seemed unable to realize that the fight was over.

^^^ Just imagine if Johnson was in there with a prime heavyweight who could punch.


PS: Hello Mcvey, I'm saving what the ref said and Johnson said just for you, just reply back. Dazed in the headline by the press, ready?

 

"Stationary with no guard and easy to hit ,"yet in 58 fights he was stopped 3 times, once when he was18 years old ,once 4 years later by Papke and once by Johnson.I wonder how old Stan managed that?
Neither Choynski,O Brien ,or Ketchel were middleweights when they fought Johnson.Smith tko'd nobody he knocked Johnson into the ropes in a sparring session and Smith never claimed otherwise , Johnson boxed two more opponents later that day.
Marciano was floored in a spar ,so was Tyson and Vitali Klitschko twice. None of these were technical knockouts.

 

"Little to judge from in the preceding rounds?"
Johnson had won every round up to the 12th and final round.when he ko'd Ketchel.

What rounds do you give Ketchel?
He did not"dash at Ketchel ,"he waited for him to come in .Johnson was standing erect when Ketchel threw his punch.You said Johnson was so dazed he fell over Ketchel this AP report directly contradicts that.Whatever AP reports you produce I can counter with ringside named newspaper accounts.Yeah, Johnson was so dazed he nonchalantly brushed his gloves off where they were torn by Ketchel's teeth.LOL You're unbalanced fella, you should seek some help!

Johnson went from Feb 1901 until April 1915 without being stopped and he wasnt ko'd again until 1928 when he was 50 years old.If his chin was so bad how did he manage this?
Johnson had a big bet on himself to stop Ketchel inside15rds and told his friends to do the same
ps Ketchel has a near 80% ko record.
He stopped O Brien twice, one of the ko's was interrupted by the final bell while he was spark out!
O Brien was only officially stopped 3 times in115 fights , once by Ketchel once by Langford and once early in his career by Young Peter Jackson.
Oh the referee, that would be Jack Welch who said ,had the Johnson Willard fight been over 25 rds he would have unhesitantly have given Johnson the decision!lol

 

Shussh! They were all under the light heavyweight limit. Ketchel if you research was 155 pounds for Johnson.. O'brien about 160. Choynski in the 170's likely. They all showed Johnson up in their own way two of which entered the ring at less than Middleweights do today, there other close to the mark.

Ketchel was a crude slugger, which in his time was good enough for him. However the best he fought in Langford, Johnson and Papke all beat him. His resume to be very inflated with lots of no names. O'Brien was past it for Ketchel.

Smith TKO'd Johnson who was down and out to the point where his manager had to halt the action. A raw novice, who was about 180 pounds did this! We have seen the press report before here.

Sorry to disappoint you but Willard's corner told him to pace himself, which he did. If you ever want to score the filmed rounds, I'm game. The fight was not scheduled for 20, rather 45 rounds. If it was 20 rounds, Willard pacing is different. DUH

Now comes the part where you run away. RUN Tony RUN....


To fill in what you ran from:

Referee Jack Welsh “affirms that the blow struck Johnson, and the colored man himself declares that he was hit behind the ear as he was coming in.”

Newspapers say Johnson was

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They were there, you were not. End of!

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[url]https://mobile.nytimes.com/1909/10/...l-goes-out-black-champion-finishes-white.html[/url]

[url]https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1909/10/17/101040198.html[/url]

Be sure to read Johnson saying Ketchel could hit and his jaw was never so sore! God forbid Johnson was in there vs a skilled heavyweight puncher in his prime. Ketchel hardly landed and IMO maybe won 1 round of 12. Yet he had Johnson down, dazed and hurt. Hmmmm....