Best five wins from the best contenders

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Gazelle Punch, Jul 29, 2020.


  1. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Charles and Walcott are def better then Machen and Folley but those two were great fighters in their own right. Three down Terrell has him but Ray imo will be a contender for top ten
     
  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Elmer Ray

    1. Charles
    2. Walcott
    3. Savold
    4. Walker
    5 Haynes

    Ray has a good top five, but his resume is full of no names too. Worthy of a title shot vs Louis. There is no film on him. Only a radio broadcast.
     
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  3. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I agree that Terrell has more depth. I pick Williams over Savold, but Savold fought brutal competition without any record padding. Not true of Williams.

    That #4 spot, though, will be where the rubber hits the road. Walker went 93-18-7 in 121 fights, with 63 KO's and was never stopped. His list of victims includes Bearcat Wright, Tony Galento, George Godfrey, Don McCorkindale, Maurice Strickland, Al Hart, Unknown Winston, and Elmer Ray. I view him as a toss up against Chuvalo. Both are tough men with spotty records.

    I picked Chaney as the #5 guy for Ray as he was still going strong and would so go on a streak in which he beat Buddy Walker, Lee Oma, Henry Flakes, and Leonard Morrow. Haynes was a name from the past on a losing streak.

    Overall, I think Ray might come up a trifle short with his top five, but he is a contender.
     
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  4. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    contender of the day

    Joe Baksi

    1----Tami Mauriello
    2----Lee Savold
    3----Lou Nova
    4----Bruce Woodc-ck
    5----Gus Dorazio

    Others--Lou Brooks, Johnny Shkor, Buddy Walker, Buddy Knox, Gunnar Barlund, Freddie Schott, Freddie Mills, Bernie Reynolds. Mills was the light-heavy champion, but I don't see him as much of a heavy threat and so left him off the top five list.

    Overall, Baksi was 61-9-3 with 30 KO's. He was stopped only once on cuts by Ezzard Charles. Baksi seems to me a 1940's version of George Chuvalo, about the same size, 6' 1" and 210+ and very durable, but vulnerable to being outboxed by such as Walcott and Oma. He strikes me off the film with Woodc-ck as being faster than Chuvalo and I think was a notch better. His top five and depth are decent but not outstanding.

    Baksi apparently was penciled in for a shot at Louis in September, 1947 after KO'ing Woodc-ck, but for some reason elected to go to Sweden to fight Olle Tandberg and lost a decision few agreed with, including by the way Tandberg, who was honest enough to say to the press that he thought he lost. That cost Baksi his title shot. The subsequent loss to Charles in an elimination bout ended Baksi as a top contender.

    Baksi also deserves dibs for beating one Jack Brazzo, who became Jack Palance and had a Hollywood career playing the heaviest heavies of them all, Attila the Hun, Dracula, and in Shane the most evil of all western gunfighters gunning down a hapless farmer.

    A solid second-tier contender type. It would have been interesting to see if Louis could have stopped him. No doubt he would have outpointed Baksi if it went the distance.
     
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  5. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Voting now Jimmy Young who was shorted quite a few wins in his career and Tommy Loughran vote away!
     
  6. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I must say I’m rather embarrassed I didn’t have Tommy Loughran on the original list...forgot who suggested but thank you for correcting that crime he certainly will make the top ten imo

    Tommy Loughran
    1 Max Baer
    2 Jack Sharkey
    3 Jimmy Braddock
    4 Ernie Schaaf
    5 Arturo Godoy
    There were several names in the 4/5 that could be put there but what a resume and I’m mad I know so little about him. Great resume had King Levinsky in there but went back and saw that he beat Ernie Scaff

    Jimmy Young
    1 George Foreman
    2 Ron Lyle
    3 Jose Luis Garcia
    4 Jose Roman
    5 Richard Dunn

    well Young kind of gets cheated in this...bottom 4/5 are WEAK. But imagine if we got to add Ali and Norton to that mix? That would look much different.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2020
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  7. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Tommy Loughran

    1) Jack Sharkey
    2) Max Baer
    3) Ernie Schaaf
    4) Tuffy Griffiths
    5) Johnny Risko

    Jimmy Young

    1) George Foreman
    2) Ron Lyle
    3) Jose Luis Garcia
    4) John L. Gardner
    5) Jeff Sims

    Trying to nail these fighters down to their most relevant is sometimes no easy feat. As well as the fact that I'm trying to do this at heavyweight only, which is why I had to exclude Jimmy Braddock and Young Stribling from Loughran's because these were fought at light heavy. As for relevance, that #5 spot in Loughran's was owing to the fact that he caught Risko as Risko was coming off probably the best 5 wins of his career and he had done it consecutively. So there is always a method to my madness.
     
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  8. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Its five best wins doesn’t have to be ag HW...Several fighters have LHW wins only there best five. My criteria is basically the LHW win had to have been a solid hw fighter
     
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  9. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Tommy Loughran is extremely underrated HW contender. I'd go as far as say that he was close to Archie Moore in HW resume. These names are fantastic, even if some of them were not at their absolute bests.
     
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  10. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Tommy Loughran

    1----Max Baer
    2----Jack Sharkey
    3----Ernie Schaaf
    4----Steve Hamas
    5----Jim Braddock

    others at heavyweight--Johnny Risko, Jack Gross, King Levinsky, Tuffy Griffiths, Vittorio Campolo, Paulino Uzcudun, Ray Impellitierre, Arturo Godoy, Al Ettore, Maurice Strickland, Jack London, Sonny Walker, Jack Renault, Pierre Charles,

    others beaten at light-heavy but relevant at heavy--Harry Greb, Georges Carpentier, Young Stribling, Jimmy Slattery, Mickey Walker (plus Braddock), and a draw with Tunney.

    Loughran has the most depth so far. I think one might be able to put together a second five which would have a good chance of making our top ten top five list. I think he is the only non-heavyweight champion to beat three lineal champions. Still there are points which can be made to provide balance. Elmer Ray, whom we just did, beat his two champions when they were peaking and at the top of their game. Baer was greenish and on a losing streak. Sharkey was coming off decisive losses to Carnera and Levinsky. Braddock was a light-heavy and would have a long drought before coming out of nowhere to become heavy champion. Loughran's best wins at heavy at the time he fought them might well be Schaaf and Hamas. Also, unlike Moore and Johnson, there is a lot of win one, lose one stuff. Sharkey, Schaaf, Hamas, Risko, Levinsky, Godoy, and Sonny Walker beat him, sometimes twice. Greb and Stribling won their series against him. And there are quite a few losses to guys he never beat like Poreda, Neusel, Farr, Foord, and Carnera.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2020
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  11. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Jimmy Young

    1----George Foreman
    2----Ron Lyle
    3----John L Gardner
    4----Jose Luis Garcia
    5----Richard Dunn

    Not making the cut--Jose Roman. On a long losing steak. Also has a draw with Shavers.

    A great top name. A strong second name. And then more or less blah. As has been mentioned, a lot of his reputation rests on the disputed decision losses to Ali and Norton. Young getting the decisions in those fights would really have shot him high in all time heavyweight rankings. Overall, though, what an odd career. He was mediocre for quite a while, turned it around and for about three years was a peer of the very best, and then went back to being mediocre. Despite Foreman at the top, I can't see this top five as being one of the top ten ones.

    *what an interesting pair of contenders for today
     
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  12. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yes well said. When the top ten argument comes I think a lot will factor. Were the fighters prime? Green? Old? How much depth is there beyond the five? Losses in between
     
  13. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    LOUGHRAN
    1-Sharkey
    2-Baer
    3-Schaaf
    4-Hamas
    5=Braddock
    nd great depth, as others have said at least 5 more good wins, Godoy, Stribling, Risko, Uzcuden, Walker et al.
    Young;
    !-Foreman
    2-Lyle
    3-Garcia
    4-Rachette
    5-Gardner
     
  14. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yes trying to map a top ten will be tough...especially first five. We still have a lot to go too. Although I think most of the best have been picked then again I didn’t think Elmer Ray would be up there as well
     
  15. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    contender of the day

    Willie Bean

    1----Turkey Thompson
    2----Pat Comiskey
    3----Young Jack Johnson
    4----Bill Gilliam
    5----Rusty Payne

    others--Ted Lowry, Bob Jacobs, Al Hoosman, Kid Rivera, Dave Whitlock, Frankie Daniels, Howard King, Bill Peterson, Dale Hall, Hank Thurman, Frank Buford

    A gatekeeper, trial horse, type from the mid-1940's to the mid-1950's. Bean was physically imposing, 6' 2 1/2" and over 205 lbs and very well built. I have never seen him on film.

    Overall, Bean had 41 wins, 22 losses, and 5 draws in 72 fights, with 22 KOs. He was stopped 5 times, and so was fairly durable.

    Like a lot of these trial horse types, Bean failed consistently against the best men--Jimmy Bivins, Clarence Henry, John Holman, Rex Layne, Archie Moore, and a prime Turkey Thompson. His win over his biggest name victim, Thompson, came in 1952 when Thompson was at the end of the road. On the other hand, Bean was able to hold his own against second tier contenders and defeated at least ten men who were top ten ranked at one time or another.

    An interesting trial horse who was always a good test for any up and comer.