Worse 6 defenses and a title won in a row, is there any worse than Wilder?

Writing Walcott off due to his losses beforehand, whilst comparing him to some of Wilder's opponents is laughable. No-one Wilder beat in his first six title defences is even comparable to Walcott. Or even an old Louis. Charles fought Lesenvich to prove he was better after Gus ducked him for years. None of Wilder's opponents match that either.

Charles defended against the best in the world, or at least guys floating around the top 10. Wilder hand picked the worst bunch of challengers ever seen just so he didn't have to. Ezz's title reign is several levels above Wilder's.

 

Are you incapable of reading comprehension? Look at the title of the thread: Worst 6 defenses and title won in a row.

Which title defenses did Wilder make against people with a below .500 record? None.

So what exactly does that have to do with anything? It’s not part of the topic. You want to make a broader topic about Wilder’s opposition, I’d suggest the world thread. After all, that’s current. This has asked us to find others to compare to Wilder’s first six title fights.

You keep bringing up things like who he fought before he was a champion on his way up. Hell, I can find you a ton of people who fought sub-.500 fighters on their way up. What exactly is the point of that? And whatever it is, it’s not speaking to this topic.

Then you bring in Ali and Liston ... Floyd did not fight them in his first six title defenses. He fought Sonny 1 of 2 in a title defense and neither of the Ali fights were a title defense. If you’re going to project out to the end of Patterson’s career, how about wait until Wilder’s career is over — he may yet fight AJ three times to go with Fury three times to go with whoever else. Then we can compare that. But that has ZERO to do with the topic. It’s just you wanting to sling mud because you don’t like Wilder. (Again, the World forum on current affairs will surely welcome you doing that, but it has nothing to do with Classic or this topic.)

I think any collection of title fights that includes Pete f-ing Rademacher is the worst IMO. I don’t care if Floyd fought King Kong, Godzilla, Mothra, Thanos, Neo from the Matrix and Pete Rademacher, just having him in there lowers it to being the worst in my mind.

By comparison to Wilder’s first six title opponents:

1) Rademacher had never fought as a professional. All of Wilder’s opponents had.

2) Rademacher was not ranked by any organization in the world, at the time or previously. All of Wilder’s were ranked by the WBC.

3) Rademacher was, when he signed the fight, not yet a professional fighter. All of Wilder’s first six title opponents were professional fighters, licensed and everything.

Now you want to talk about the topic, address Pete Rademacher. Because whatever you think of Wilder’s opposition or any other heavyweight champion’s in history — all of them were professional fighters. No other champion in history disgraced the title by basically saying to an amateur, ‘Pay me a bunch of money and I’ll fight you no matter how bad it makes me or the most important title in all of sports look.’

 

Yeah, but I was thinking NBA ratings.

Interesting that The Ring had Pastrano ahead of Harris, even though Harris had defeated him.

 

1 ) You know, Wilder didn't have any title defenses against ring ranked opponents under the age of 36. That is a record for any alphabet champion. Wilder's title opponents were beaten commodities or obviously limited fighters. He waited for Ortiz to age, before giving him a go, and wanted nothing to do with Povetkin. Wlad KO'd him easily in sparring, perhaps a reason why that fight never happened. So in addition to fighting a bunch of guys who did not deserve a title shot, he only took some matches when the opponent was over the hill.

2 ) Had Wilder fought the gold meal winner in 2016 ( Yoka ) he would need a KO. Yoka can box and punches harder than Fury. I don't think Rademacher earned a title shot, but he did win Olympic gold.

3 ) Yes, I thinK Wilder has among the worst title defense as defined by the thread. Don't you? Now read this, I consider him a protected prospect on the way up, as he fought 10 men .500 or below in his first 15 fights! Who are you to confine what some can say in a thread.? This shows his handlers feared he was a KO loss waiting to happen and sheds light why his title defenses were soft touches.

4 ) Patterson fought Liston in a title defense. And his overall competition is far greater than Wilders. Wilder's career if you know anything about heavyweights is nearly over. He's making excuses, aging and was badly exposed. If a washed up Chris Arreola or Ortiz at 40 something is your best win and you'll be 35 years old in 2 months, you didn't accomplish much.

 

Patterson title defenses, with opponent rankings at the time of the fight. Note that the Ring rankings are from the monthly issues, not from the often incorrect "annual rankings" on Boxrec.

Tommy Jackson - #1 NBA, #1 Ring
Pete Rademacher - unranked by both
Roy Harris - #3 NBA, #5 Ring
Brian London - #4 NBA, #8 Ring
Ingemar Johansson fight 1 - #1 NBA, #1 Ring
Ingemar Johansson fight 3 - #3 NBA, #2 Ring
Tom McNeeley - unranked NBA (though #10 the previous month), #9 Ring
Sonny Liston - #1 WBA, #1 Ring

Wilder title defenses. I'll list the rankings I have, usually Ring, Transnational Boxing Rankings Board (TBRB), and BoxRec.

Eric Molina - unranked TBRB, unranked Boxrec forum rankings
Johann Duphaupas - unranked TBRB, (that's all I have for that month)
Artur Szpilka - unranked TBRB, unranked Ring, unranked in top 15 BoxRec
Chris Arreola - unranked TBRB, unranked Ring, unranked in top 15 BoxRec
Gerald Washington - unranked TBRB, unranked Ring, unranked Boxing News, unranked in top 15 BoxRec
Bermane Stiverne - unranked TBRB, unranked Ring, unranked Boxing News, unranked in top 15 BoxRec
Luis Ortiz - unranked TBRB, #5 Ring, unranked Boxing News, #4 BoxRec
Tyson Fury - #8 TBRB, #7 Ring, unranked Boxing News, #5 BoxRec
Dominic Breazeale - unranked TBRB, unranked Ring, #8 Boxing News, #10 BoxRec
Luis Ortiz - #6 TBRB, #6 Ring, #8 Boxrec
Tyson Fury - #2 TBRB

I'm actually a little surprised. I figured a 'first six defenses' Wilder opponent would turn up somewhere. But nope. This is the effect of having several rival boxing organizations and champions.

 

Good post.

 

Saintpat brought Patterson's his name up.

Agreed, Patterson has a good record and fought higher ranked opponents in title shots in comparison to Wilder.

 

Patterson fought a guy with zero professional experience. The most disgraceful heavyweight title defense in boxing history.

And since you don’t want to limit it to the topic (winning title plus first five defenses), he also fought McNeely, who wasn’t ranked by anyone.

So yes I brought him up. Any collection of title defenses that includes Rademacher is worse than any collection that doesn’t by definition.

If you fight Ali, Frazier, Foreman and Shirley Temple, the inclusion of Temple in the set still makes it the worst list because it’s a disagree. And Shirley’s resume as a professional boxer is exactly equal to Rademacher’s. At least McNeely held a license.

 

Nah, there were worse title defenses than Pete Rademacher. Tony Ross for example lost 4 of his last 6 when Johnson gave him a title shot. I urge you to review Sweetsci's post.

Patterson title defenses:

Tommy Jackson - #1 NBA, #1 Ring
Pete Rademacher - unranked by both
Roy Harris - #3 NBA, #5 Ring
Brian London - #4 NBA, #8 Ring
Ingemar Johansson fight 1 - #1 NBA, #1 Ring
Ingemar Johansson fight 3 - #3 NBA, #2 Ring
Tom McNeeley - unranked NBA (though #10 the previous month), #9 Ring
Sonny Liston - #1 WBA, #1 Ring


Wilder title defenses.

Eric Molina - unranked TBRB, unranked Boxrec forum rankings
Johann Duphaupas - unranked TBRB, (that's all I have for that month)
Artur Szpilka - unranked TBRB, unranked Ring, unranked in top 15 BoxRec
Chris Arreola - unranked TBRB, unranked Ring, unranked in top 15 BoxRec
Gerald Washington - unranked TBRB, unranked Ring, unranked Boxing News, unranked in top 15 BoxRec
Bermane Stiverne - unranked TBRB, unranked Ring, unranked Boxing News, unranked in top 15 BoxRec
Luis Ortiz - unranked TBRB, #5 Ring, unranked Boxing News, #4 BoxRec
Tyson Fury - #8 TBRB, #7 Ring, unranked Boxing News, #5 BoxRec
Dominic Breazeale - unranked TBRB, unranked Ring, #8 Boxing News, #10 BoxRec
Luis Ortiz - #6 TBRB, #6 Ring, #8 Boxrec
Tyson Fury - #2 TBRB


Notice a difference? Patterson is fighting ranked men for the most part ranked #1-#3, Wilder isn't picking opponents in the top opponents at all. In fact six Wilder title opponents were not ranked at all! Ortiz was ranked but he was 40+years old.

 

What the NBA were doing ranking London no 4, I've no idea, he had lost 2 of his last 4 fights, his previous one to Cooper and one of his 2 wins was a cut eye stoppage of Pastrano after he had butted Willie.

 

Both Pastrano and Cooper were ranked ahead of him, and apparently both that London lost were close fights. Sometimes in boxing, when a fighter performs well in a loss against a higher rated fighter, they don't slip in the ratings.

 

Someone who has lost 4 out of 6 has at least had six professional fights lol.

Counting NBA ranking but not WBC ranking for Wilder shows your bias.

 

Funny you mentioned Povetkin — cost himself a shot at Wilder by popping positive for a PED and then when he got an eliminator to earn another shot he tests positive for yet another brand of PEDs (leading not Wilder having to fight Stiverne a second time as a mandatory). You seem to have conveniently forgot to mention the actual facts of the matter.

But let’s look at what he did as WBA regular champ:

Won it from Ruslan Chagaev, lol. A nobody who had done nothing.

Defended it against these mighty challengers:

Cedric Boswell (who? Lol)

Marco Huck (a cruiserweight who battered PEDvetkin and got jobbed on the decision)

Hasim Rahman (past 36 so doesn’t count since you conveniently drew a line there, but explain how this on-his-last-legs guy got gifted a title shot)

Andrzej Wawrzk (do I even have to?)

Then he fought Wlad, but we can’t count that because he was over 36 and you say those don’t count.

 

I was using Sweetsci data. I guess now you must think he's showing his bias.

I prefer to use Ring Magazine Rankings. Box Rec is okay. Major third party ratings. Here Wilder does not rate much, just accept it. Like I said before Wilder has ZERO wins over Ring Magazine ranked opponents where the opponent was under 36 years of age. That is shameful when you consider the amount of WBC title defenses he had.

WBC rankings are not very credible. No alphabet rankings are. Managers buy their way in at times.

Currently the WBC ranked #2 ranked fighter at heavyweight has one heavyweight fight under his belt. Their #5 guy ( Rivas ) joke. Need I say more?