the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.


  1. rorschach51

    rorschach51 A Legend & A Gentleman Full Member

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    Max Schmeling vs Mickey Walker (September 26, 1932) (15 Rounds Light-Heavyweights)

    Round 1: 10-8 Schmeling (Max had the smaller quicker Walker's timing down almost immediately, & stunned Mickey throughout the 1st with counters finally dropping him late,)

    Round 2: 10-9 Schmeling
    (More of the same, Max nailed Mickey with hard flush counter rights ttaking the round. Walker does stage a mini rally in the final 45 seconds)

    Round 3: 10-9 Walker
    (Edges the frame by being first and landing his own counter snappy left hook over Max's jab & the uppercut on the inside. By rounds end Max starts to turn the tide again by countering Mick's hook with his lead right.)

    Round 4: 10-9 Walker
    (Game as they come, still landing with regularity that snap left hook, now stunns Max on a couple of occasions with blistering combinations. Max keeping himself in the rounds by still landing his crisp right lead.)

    Round 5: 10-9 Walker
    (Has the crowd roaring again with his leaping lead left hooks, and a combo that stuns the bigger man (and former Heavyweight Champion of the World) again. Pulling him even on my card after 5 rounds.)

    Round 6: 10-9 Schmeling
    (Takes back control of the action with his jab, throwing in the occasional 1-2, by this point heavy swelling has started to close both of Mickey's eyes.)

    Round 7: 10-10 Even

    Round 8: 10-7 TKO

    My Score: (77-72 Schmeling ATOS) Round 7 is unavailable.

    Official Scores: (N/A)
    Winner: By 8th round Technical Knockout, Max Schmeling.

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    Schmeling drops Walker 2 more times before the bell rings to end the 8th round with Mickey beating the count. With both eyes swollen shut, and bleeding profusely Jack Kearns (Walker's manager) singles the ref to stop the fight after the end of the 8th round. This was a benifit show for something called "The Milk Fund." Walker was one badass mother****er though, he was badly hurt and couldn't see out of either eye. Yet everytime he got up he never tried to hold, instead went right back to throwing bombs trying to win against the bigger man & former Heavyweight Champion of the World.

     
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  2. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Polishing up on a few fights from the legendary 122lbers there's been, and I've never seen this one before.

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    10 : 9
    9 : 10*
    10 : 9*
    10 : 9 (39/37)
    9 : 10*
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9 (78/74)
    10 : 9
    9 : 10
    10 : 9
    8 : 10 (
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    I understand that volumes were written on this one, so I'll give my own little take and leave it at that.

    So much went wrong for Naz in the lead up, but that's nothing to take away from the great performance Barrera put in. Absolutely outstanding.

    Barrera had already been undergoing his transformation to being a boxer, but this was the main turning point. Instead of rushing straight into Naz's power, he decided to work on taking the Prince's best weapons away. He lit Naz up early in the first to make Naz doubt himself and not commit as much. He then moved to the left to make Naz overextend on his cross, and countered it with quick combinations. He then made sure to bring his left hook either under or over his jab to make sure he lowered his out-put. When his foot was inside of Hamed's lead, he'd snap his counter jab to further dissuade Naz from throwing it. He then stuck to this and kept roughing Naz up inside, Barrera's bodywork was excellent, as you'd expect. The Prince didn't have an answer for Barrera's surprise fundamental masterpiece. The rounds Naz won were basically just because Barrera wasn't throwing as much. Very slow pace at times. There was honestly nothing between them. I've always thought that Barrera's fundamental transformation was overstated, but he did look damn good here.

    This was also an amazing win. I can't believe some try and discredit Hamed as a mere hypejob. He was a huge puncher, and beat two of the best Super-Bantamweights of all time, as well as a few genuinely elite featherweights. There's absolutely no doubt that he was a cataclysmic puncher which makes this an elite win no matter what. But Naz was a top five P4P guy at the time, and the best FW in the world. As well as a great puncher.

    Who the **** is Bob Papa? For a few seconds I thought he was gonna commentate. Nah, it was the great trio of Lampley, Merchant and Foreman on the Coms. :lol:
     
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  3. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Jel, you and Jester scored this fairly recently and you both had it close. Mine was no different. Here we go

    James Toney v Mike McCallum II

    Round 1: 10-9 Toney
    Round 2: 10-10 Even
    Round 3: 10-9 Toney
    Round 4: 10-9 McCallum
    Round 5: 10-10 Even
    Round 6: 10-10 Even
    Round 7: 10-9 Toney
    Round 8: 9-9 Even (scored the round for McCallum but 1 point deducted for a 'behind-the-back' punch - very harsh)
    Round 9: 10-9 McCallum
    Round 10: 10-9 McCallum
    Round 11: 10-10 Even
    Round 12: 10-9 McCallum

    Total: 116-115 McCallum (actual scores: 114-114 Even and 118-110, 117-110 both for Toney for a majority decision win for Toney)

    Aarrghhh! So many close rounds down to the wire. I hate having so many even rounds but I won't penalize a fighter on a flip of the coin. Toney would start out each round landing a couple of sharp right hands but then fall into his lull and let the older/not so sharp fighter back into the fight. A draw would have been a correct decision in this fight as well. Regarding the point deduction, again, very harsh. A behind-the-back punch that was simply a tap was ridiculous. Obviously Cortez never reffed a Ray 'Windmill' White fight. A punch like that was obligatory from him.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
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  4. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Your kung-fu is strong, grasshopper.

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  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Tomonobu Shimizu SD12 Hugo Cazares

    Honestly can't remember if this superflyweight clash was straight up or not. Cazares, a veteran by this point (2014) had gone to the Japanese well a lot - they're hardly corrupt out there but on the other hand you're only going to survive so many close fights (the first Cazares-Nashiro fight is one of the fights that remains tragically lost to the internet). Wonjongkam victim Shimizu does have the right profile - youngish still, but very fresh. Shimizu takes the first with busier hands and aggression, Cazares finds him nonchalantly with the head when they bump up - the Japanese widely retreats to distance and uses fast, straight punches to do his scoring. Cazares eventually works his way back in though having won a wrestling exchange and absolutely lashes his man with a left hook, stealing a close round for me.

    Good, close rounds these. Cazares boxes in a way your dad would approve of; no flash, hands high, ring centre. Shimizu is quick enough to keep ahead of this but there were signs int eh second that Cazares had found him. Head clashes abound. Cazares appears to be both instigating them and receiving the bulk of the referee's sympathy :lol: Cazares switches in the fourth though he comes so square over that lead leg that it hardly matters. Cazares ups the pressure in the fifth, hands low, perma-feinting with both, Shimizu looks unimpressed overall but it's a Cazares round for all that both men end it fighting ragged.

    Cazares is boxing southpaw but is mixing up his leads as single shots with disturbing frequency, it's risky but Shimizu isn't taking full advantage - there's a very nice lead trailing uppercut, then he works inside. No fluid combos and he's getting hit but it's surely clear he is outlanding his man now. He even seems to have Shimizu momentarily hurt in the final seconds. Cazares returns to his conservative style in the seventh, high hands, incremental pressure, more caution. It doesn't work for him and he loses the round, but i'm not sure he has the energy for perma-feints and high pressure. He slings some punches in the eighth though - Shimizu basically shells up and waits for the first 35 seconds. Cazares is now infighting and losing. Shimizu's engine is the better. Cazares is driven to the ropes. Great action. Cazares gives ground, hands low. Both men miss and are very tired. Excruciating round to score.

    Shmizu stings 9 and 10 together and it's almost always the case that the man who does that is there or thereabotus at the end - Cazares needs both on my card for the draw and i don't think he'll get them. It's Shimizu who is doing the holding, but he is also doing the cleaner punching, while Cazares does the pressuring but is notpunching enough or well enough to justify it. Cazars has the experience though - he knows what is required and bring pressure and two-handedness in the eleventh, cautious enough that he's not on the wire but hot enough that opportunities present themselves. When Shimizu tries to reciprocate, Cazares actually circles on his toes and minimises what he has to take until he's ready to go again. Many, many headclashes have occur din this fight. At least one every other round. Very, very close eleventh and that's three close rounds i've given Cazres now (one for Shimizu) - there can be no cries of robbery in this fight, impossible. Still, it's close enough that it remains on the line for me going into the twelfth.

    I saw it for Shimizu giving me a card 115-113 in favour of the Japanese.

    Cazares:2,5,6,8,11,
    Shimizu:1,3,4,7,9,10,12.

    Official: 115-113, 115-113, 113-114.
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Omar Narvaez SD12 Felipe Orucuta

    The first fight was close as I remember it. Omar, who defines whatever diametrically opposes "cleared out the division" may be the worst 3 year number one we've ever seen, but he was pretty much indesputably the best superfly post-Vic pre-Inoue. Felipe was probably the best fighter he beat.

    Omar really does appear to know where he is in the ring at all times and he cuts it off well too. Here, he looks for the range early, tries to measure Felipe's range and they exchange a few single shots. Felipe looks a good bit bigger but he's interested in the body. Felipe is warned for low blows in the second - looks like bull****. These are beltline bodyshots i'd say - Argentine crowd woesn't like it though. Narvaez made a good start to this round with counters, but he actually looks a little uncomfortable here. It's the size difference. This is a good start from Felipe, applying pressure, scoring hard looking shots to the body.

    Narvaez scores with two hard counters to poach the third, but his solution is dangerous because it is essentially defensive. He gives ground, he takes a quick step out when he feels the ropes for any length of time, he covers up well and parries. What this means is Felipe is applying pressure, almost exclusively, moving forwards, almost exclusively, and throwing more punches. Narvaez is reliant upon doing the clean work. His counters are effective though in 3 and 4; it's a good adjustment. Hard, close rounds, a hard fight to box and a hard one to score. It's a very good fight to watch.

    Felipe stops the clever Narvaez comeback in five through six, fifth arguable, sixth clear. He is unquestionably landing the more hurtful punches, that is beyond doubt and that makes this a dangerous game - pati-cake isn't cutting it in response. Narvaez knows this and wings more dangerous punches (for both) in the seventh. He also squabbles his way out of the corner a couple of times. It's enough, though Felipe makes it so close with pressure and bodywork. Narvaez needed that round. If he'd lost that one he's close to cast adrift. Instead he once again closes the gap. He's taking more chances in the pocket now and he's getting away with it because Felipe is struggling to match the concise punching. This is a fun rally, a thoughtful rally.

    Great ninth, Omar takes charge early but Felipe remains consistent and forces the Argentine to give ground with a body attack. Very difficult round to score - very difficult. Referee - refuses to pander to the crowd who boo these beltline shots this round. Great, great hustle from Felipe, he just will not let Omar rest. This is looking like a draw. One or the other fighter will have to win 11 and 12 both in order to take it and I just can't see that that would happen. Unless someone folds - it's been a real pace, and that's Felipe's doing and desire.

    Screaming match between referee and Omar's corner between the 11th and 12th, the referee having warned Felipe for low blows yet again but taken no points. I don't see anything that bad but you just don't know what the referee has said about "these trunks are high" or whatever. Either way, Felipe out-worked Omar down the straight to pull out the 115-113 win for me and also feels like the winner. I'm pretty sure, closing each round the stronger, throwing more punches, he would have got the nod on neutral territory.

    Omar:3,4,7,8,10,
    Felipe:1,2,5,6,9,11,12.

    Official: 115-113, 115-113, 110-118.

    All three official scorecards are not unreasonable, weirdly.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
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  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Omar Narvaez MD12 Felipe Orucuta

    Weird first round given what's gone already. Omar is aggressive, coming forwards hands high, looking to lead with the southpaw jab, trying to crowd Felipe who is once again looking for bodyshots early. Second round though he moves onto the backfoot and looks for long jabs upstairs. It makes for a good, close round, but i'm inclined to edge it to Omar on the aggression. Felipe edges the third though and clearly takes the fourth, though Narvaez does counter him hard on one or two occasions even in that round. The big difference is that Felipe's activity has forced Omar to move and in moving, he's opened up space for Felipe to fill with those long punches and his physical body. It looks more like the first fight again now, which is a hard fight for him to win. Five out of eight remaining rounds is a lot. He begins the fifth using the exact plan in the first fight, mobile with a mobile defence. It's very good though, he even manages to parry shots to his ribs. Orucuta receives his first warning for low blows in the fifth and it was indeed two low blows. Clear Felipe round though and he has really built up a head of steam in taking the lead.

    The rounds are close, but Narvaez is clearly being beaten; it's the optics as much as anything else, he'll get cornered once ever round and hit about a bit. He's not out of it, but he needs more every minute to rescue this. I'd say it's beyond him now, personally. He clearly lost the last third of the last fight, 4-0 on Argenitne tv. So what's the plan? It appears to be "complain to the ref" which Omar does frequently about elbows, heads and low-blows, mostly without cause. He does probably land all of the best punches of the seventh and it was enough for him to scrape it - arguably - on my card. Just getting outworked and pushed around. Still, he lifts a key round in the form of the ninth, just about out-squabbling his man and landing one or two nice uppercuts, still ceding ground though - he needs 10,11 and 12 to win on my card and I just can't see it with this plan. He wins a bizarre tenth though, clearly out-worked but his defensive work is exceptional. He really measures Felipe defensively in this round and lands just enough counters to make it his round. It's fascinating watching, actually.

    And he lands his two best punches of the fight early in the eleventh! Two straight hard right hands that momentarily rattle Felipe and bring Omar on at a charge - he's really attacking his man and takes the round with aggressive flurries - looks knackered with forty seconds remaining though. Still, huge round in the context of the fight which means Omar now can't lose on my card.

    Fiar play. He won the twelfth, too. Almost like he just decided, "not tonight."

    Omar:1,2,7,9,10,11,12.
    Felipe:3,4,5,6,8.

    115-113 Omar Narvaez

    Official: 114-114, 116-112, 116-112.
     
  8. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Today I routed through all of Russell's old threads and got myself a lovely little list to watch. Don Lee appeared quite a few times, so I'll watch three/four of his fights tonight.

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    8 : 10
    10 : 9
    10 : 6
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    9 : 10
    10 : 9 (
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    Goddamn! What a shoot-out. Classic nail biter, this one. Good action, crazy drama at times and some decent skills on show too.

    Good win, this. Sibson was still a top 5 MW at this time. Very telling about the power Lee possessed. The shots he landed here had Tony up and down like a yo-yo in round three and eight, impressive anyway, but even moreso when compared to how he took Hagler's. Brutal KO.
     
  9. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    I was thinking, earlier today: is the era of British middleweights in the 90s actually better than the one in the late '70s/early '80s? Are Benn, Watson & Eubank better than Sibson, Minter & Finnegan? Watson is my pick for the best of them all, but that's pretty close as well. Minter certainly achieved more.

    Has anyone here seen the Finnegan vs Minter trilogy? I've heard it's excellent, but I'd just wanna double check. Same with the first Minter vs Vito fight.
     
  10. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I've never actually seen Finnegan, I probably should. I might be in the minority in thinking Vito edged the first Minter fight. I wrote it up here somewhere, I'll go find it.
     
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  11. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Here it is, George...…..
     
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  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Omar Narvaez UD12 Cesar Seda

    Probably the second best fighter Narvaez met, Seda had dusted some good guys coming off losses. This one actually had a bit of glamour attached because they had done something like 55 fights between them unbeaten.

    Two southpaws, both pretty perched, too, Narvaez again visually the smaller man. Seda is quicker, too. Another tough assignment so far characterised by missing on both sides, but it's Seda who has the better of it. Seda feints well with the trailing hand in the third, and is warned for the second time for low blows. Narvaez's habit of waiting is infuriating - he's struggling a little bit here on the surface but just because he's permanently waiting. Narvaez has a great start to the round though, and a better end, stinging Seda with punches. He's lethal when a man tries to move across him. He's not powerful, or swift, but he's very succinct. The problem is he misses a little too much for this waiting style IMO. It calls for very great accuracy.

    Seda get the better of the fifth early, swift, long punches, good mobility - it's like Narvaez has spooked him a bit in three and four. Seda has a point deducted for low blows and probably loses the round after Narvaez closes the stronger. Good round of boxing. and an absolutely crucial sixth coming up. Narvaez wins it opening up big time, including to the body, best round i've seen him box today, he's all over Seda - brilliant timing on the attack. After winning the seventh, too, Narvaez all but has it in the bag.

    Seda was a little better than his ranking though I think (8).

    Narvaez:3,4,5*,6,7,9,10,11.
    Seda:1,2,8,12.

    *Seda has a point removed for low blows.

    116-111 Narvaez.
     
  13. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    @salsanchezfan, I know I'm late, but at least I did it. ;)
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    10 : 9
    9 : 10
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    9 : 10 (48/47)
    10 : 9
    9 : 10
    9 : 10
    9 : 10
    10 : 9 (
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    Man, what a fight... This one was awesome. A real torrid back and forth affair between two just below elite level guys. Lee really was a fun fighter. Stylistically, he's a like Hearns/P. Williams hybrid IMO. Definitely entertaining.

    Draw was fine IMO, but I'll be honest, I botched some of the rounds up while writing them down and I couldn't figure out where. Plus, I was enjoying myself too much so I didn't score in earnest for all of them, much more of a 'feeler' process. Didn't have any issues with a draw though, very close fight.
     
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  14. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yeah, that was fun I thought. Dewitt is seen often now as the punching bag they fed to Benn and Toney at the height of their powers, but a few years before he was a solid, truly professional fighter. And what a chin!
     
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  15. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Second to last fight here. This one and Watson, I've never seen this one but the quote from Russell was "a foul fest which would make Terry Norris blush". So count my interest piqued.

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    8 : 10
    8 : 10
    10 : 9
    10 : 8
    10 : 8
    10 : 7 (
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    This was a proper scrap. An untidy, sloppy brawl with both men throwing caution to the wind. Lots of knock-downs and fouls. Lee looked like he couldn't help himself. A bit like Golota. Early on, Lee just kept getting nailed with that looping right hook. Paul had him down twice from it but he came right back swinging in round two, though. I have no idea why he kept hitting Whitaker while he was down.

    Whitaker was a decent pressure fighter, or so it seemed. His fight with Hilton might be worth checking out, maybe see how Benitez handled bin could be interesting too.

    Also, anyone else ever seen a between-rounds DQ?