Jake Lammotas win over Bob Satterfield~

No it isnt ,Jake was self managed with his brother Joey as a front man.Klompy is correct on this occasion.Ray Robinson carried a couple of boxers for the mob Charlie Fusari being one of them,nobody would suggest he was mobbed up.
Lamotta was
number6 in 42
number 1 in43
number 2 in44
number 3 in45
number1 in46
number5 in47
number 3 in48

He finally got his title shot in June 1949.
Do you seriously think he would have been ignored and avoided all those years if he was doing business with the mob?

 

Jake did business for the mob.

He threw a fight for them.

I have no doubt they also fixed some things in his favor.

He was gifted a title shot by them.

I’m sure the mob and LaMotta are happy people are willing to buy the proposition that he was clean and had nothing to do with the mob hook, line and sinker.

 

Graziano was mobbed up. Ike Williams was mobbed up. They were owned and operated by the mob. LaMotta was categorically not mobbed up. He was forced to throw a fight in order to move his career forward. Thats like saying the business owner who is forced to pay protection money to the mob is mobbed up.

 

You have to have a planet sized hole in your knowledge of Jake and the era to believe this. All one has to do is look at the softballs that an actual mobbed up fighter, Graziano, got pitched and then look at Jake fighting all of these tough fighters who were also being frozen out, often in their hometown. Then realize that because Jake couldnt get the big money fights he had to open his own venue and start promoting fights himself, which in turn he was forced out of by the mob. Then when he turns to managing fighters they are stolen by the mob. None of this is speculation, its a matter of record. So yeah, the mob loved Jake... NOT!

 

Exactly, excellent comparison.

 

Jake was weighing in at 165 and fighting welterweights LOL. Most of the decent names on his resume were 147-pounders who got fed to him.

His mob buddies got him a title fight. This is not in dispute. He did them the favor throwing a fight. This is not in dispute.

I believe they did him plenty of favors along the way. Do you expect Jake and the mob to admit they were in bed together? You’re believing a fairy tale.

This is how the mob doesn’t do business: they come to you and ask you nicely to do something and tell you what they will do for you in return. Then let you decide if that’s what you want to do.

This is how the mob does business: they tell you what you’re going to do and explain explicitly that you’re going to sleep with the fishes if you don’t.

You want us to believe in the case of Jake LaMotta, as opposed to how the mob operated in every other racket at the time (and since) that they simply said ‘Hey Jake, if you’ll tank this fight we’ll get you a title shot; if not, no hard feelings.’ Wouldn’t it be pretty to think so.

Don’t believe everything you see in the movies. Makes you look like a rube.

 

I think it was obviously a good win, but not one which should be overblown. Satterfield was fairly green and still not that heavy. LaMotta was actually two pounds heavier at 167 to 165.

It is somewhat like Hurricane Carter defeating Jimmy Ellis. Carter actually weighed in one pound heavier.

 

If he had to stand in line behind others who did business with the mob, sure.

We’re supposed to believe he threw a fight in 1947 and got a title shot as a result ... 18 months later.

If you want to believe one you have to be willing to believe the other. They didn’t have mandatories in those days and only one title so lots of guys had to wait.

And did it occur to you that those rankings (attained mostly by beating welterweights and also with losses along the way that would have set him back) might have been arranged by the mob?

 

No it didn't because Zale was champ and he wasnt owned by the mob.Dont you think the mob would have manouvered one of their controlled contenders into a title shot? Why would they make him wait 7 years, you're not being logical here mate.

 

So you’re saying Zale was champ and wasn’t controlled by the mob. So how did the mob keep LaMotta from getting a shot at Zale?

The party line by Klompton and others is that the mob blocked Jake from a title shot because he wouldn’t do business with them ... yet they didn’t control Zale so how did that work exactly?

Maybe Zale didn’t want to fight a mobbed-up LaMotta and risk giving control of the title to the crooks? Can’t really blame him.

If the mob wanted Jake to throw a fight, they didn’t have to offer him a title shot. They just had to have someone go break his brother’s hands into tiny little pieces and tell Jake the same was coming to him if he didn’t do business. They aren’t known for reasonable value-for-value business propositions.

I don’t doubt that LaMotta wasn’t under mob control for a period of his career. But once he threw a fight for the mob and his ‘friends’ arranged a title fight for him, he was a mob guy pure and simple. He went into business with them. Before that is debatable, I’ll grant, but a lot of his career looks fishy — what other 165-pound guys constantly got to fight welterweights and somehow hardly ever managed to fight guys his own size or was ever the guy who had to fight bigger men (like those welters did) ... and some of his wins and losses also don’t completely pass the smell test (including the one where the champion quit on his stool claiming an injury).

Jake was no saint, no matter what people want to make him out to be because they saw a movie.

 

Jake fought who he could get fights with and make the most money with. He was self managed. Thats a fact. You want to criticize Jake for fighting killers like Robinson 5 times before becoming champ, Tommy Bell three times, Holman Williams, Bert Lytell, Jose Basora 4 times, Nate Bolden, Lloyd Marshall, California Jackie Wilson, Fritzie Zivic 4 times, Georgie Kochan 3 times, Coley Welch, Johnny Colan, Tommy Yarosz often in their hometowns or at least on neutral territory while pretending he was some mob protected fighter meanwhile Graziano is getting fed guys like Billy Arnold, who lost to an older Zivic than LaMotta beat and a list of welterweights (not always beating them) that wouldnt have stepped anywhere near the above mentioned fighters much less Graziano doing so. These guys couldnt get title shots and werent protected like actual mob fighters so they fought each other. Pretending that fighters didnt fight catchweights fights is comical the difference is that while Jake was beating stellar welterweights he was also beating dangerous middleweights. Something Graziano, the poster child for MOBBED UP fighters never did. But you may want to check Jakes resume. He fought a lot of welterweights during the worst part of the war when it was hard for fighters to stay busy but Jake also fought a hell of a lot of dangerous fighters that were bigger than him and the welterweights he was fighting werent stiffs. These guys were the best in the world at the time and unlike Servo and Cochrane when Graziano got ahold of them they were active and fighting the best at the time, not just coming out of the war with a couple of a setup wins and then being fed to a guy a division higher than them.

A favor?
fa·vor /ˈfāvər/ an act of kindness beyond what is due or usual.

Jake had to throw a fight to a guy he could have beaten easily which resulted in a ban on him and then had to pay a bribe of nearly $100,000 to get his title shot. Otherwise his eight year nearly 90 fight career would have been incomplete. Does that sound like a favor?

You believe this with zero evidence or proof to back it up. My impression of Jake and this era is garnered from decades of research and hours upon hours of interviews with the people involved. Ive literally never, EVER run across anyone even remotely associated with these events that came anywhere near close to saying Jake was a mob fighter and that includes plenty of people who didnt like him and had plenty of reason to run him down.

Now you are going to educate me on how the mob does business... Gee thanks Don Corleone... Youve been watching too many movies if you think thats how the mob does business.

So let me get this straight, you want to argue out of one side of your mouth that Jake was mobbed up and they did favors for him but at the same time the went to him and threatened to kill him if he didnt do what they said. Your argument is all over the place.

Ahem: "This is how the mob does business: they tell you what you’re going to do and explain explicitly that you’re going to sleep with the fishes if you don’t."

Yes because nobody expected Jake to do such a horrible job of acting which resulted in a high profile investigation by a grand jury that lasted three months which resulted in Jake being indefinitely suspended. This necessitated a period in which Jake had to rebuild his fighting reputation and wait until a title shot wouldnt have raised so many questions.

When Jake threw the fight to Fox Zale wasnt champion, Graziano was. The mob was able to block LaMotta (among others) from getting a title shot merely by steering their fighters away from him. As mentioned in a previous post the NBA wanted Graziano to fight LaMotta prior to Graziano getting a title shot yet Graziano is steered away from literally any middleweight and somehow gets a middleweight title shot. Nobody disputes that the war prevented a title shot for everyone. But after that the mob quickly wrapped up the sport by controlling contenders and champions and ultimately, through the IBC venues and television dates (that was a little later though). As far as the middleweight division is concerned Graziano was owned by Eddie Coco, acting boss of the Lucchese crime family, the same family that Frankie Carbo belonged to. Coco personally visited LaMotta at his house on Pelham Parkway and asked him to throw the prospective Graziano fight. The mob was all in on Graziano and through him the title was tied up for three years. When LaMotta refused he was frozen out of the picture. The mob also controlled Marcel Cerdan through their front manager Lew Burston. The NBA wanted Cerdan to fight LaMotta before getting a title shot. Just like Graziano Cerdan was able to bypass LaMotta and move straight into a title shot. The mob pocketed most of Graziano's money and most of Cerdan's money as champion. Thats how the mob operates. Any dumbass can go around waving a gun and pretending to be a cowboy but the Mafia didnt become so successful by being stupid. The took control of fighters the way a venture capitalist takes control of a business and then they squeeze them for every nickel they can generate. LaMotta was a greedy distrustful man and he was never going to allow anyone to just bleed his livelihood. It was easier for him to throw a fight and pay a bribe than to give himself over to the mob. He was smart enough to know that he would have nothing left after that. He wasnt stupid when it came to business but that greed and mistrust and unwillingness to play ball ruined him financially both in New York and in Miami. When he couldnt get big money fights against contenders he promoted fights at his own venue. The mob took that over. Then he managed fighters. The mob stole them. Down in Florida he refused to pay protection money and was framed on a prostitution charge (I have an interview with the DA in Miami admitting that). So you can, based on your imagination, believe what you want. But the truth is much more complicated and much easier to back up than your fanciful imagination.

Again, youve been watching too many movies.

Your imagination is remarkable.

 

Anybody here suggested Lamotta was a saint?
Anything in either the book Raging Bull or the film of the same name indicate Lamotta was a saint?
In his autobiography he admitted raping his friends girlfriend, and robbing an old guy, hitting him with a pipe .The film shows him beating up both his wives and his brother .Unless you have seen a different film to everyone else, I'm at a loss as to how you would come to that conclusion?
You don't think Cerdan's injury was genuine?


Dauthille
Villemain
Lytell
Marshall
Nardico
Murphy
Yarosz
Costner
Basora
Cerdan
Mitri
Hairston
Were welterweights?
Your post is one of the strangest I've read for a very long time.

 

Where did I say the mob threatened LaMotta’s life? I said if they wanted him to throw a fight they wouldn’t say ‘if you do this favor for us, we’ll get you a title shot,” which has been your narrative.

If they were approaching a non-mobbed-up guy to throw a fight, they wouldn’t ask. They’d tell. And they’d make clear the consequences of him beating Fox. But Jake did the job for the boys. And they took care of him. Because he was their guy.

You can’t say ‘Jake threw a fight for the mob and thus got a title shot from the mob” and at the same time say, “but he wasn’t a mob guy.” He did it for them and he got a title shot.

You’ve said more times than I can count that the mob protected their fighters from fighting non-mob guys. Guess what, you just said Cerdan was a mobbed-up guy. And who did they give a title shot to? Their other guy, LaMotta.

A+B = C.

You can’t have it both ways.

Stop watching movies. And don’t hurt yourself trying to (once again) pat yourself on the back about how you’re the greatest researcher in the history of research. We’ve gone over this — your aptitude at research is far surpassed by your inability to draw proper conclusions from what you stumble across while conducting said research. Jake did business with the mob — he threw a fight for them and he got a title shot (against a mob guy, yet you also say they only let mob guys fight their other mob guys for championships, which means Jake was ... A MOB GUY>

LaMotta was as much of a disgrace as a fighter as he was a human being.

 

Look at his record. Look how many tines he’s over 160 and he’s fighting some welter who came in at 148 or whatever. Or even below the limit. Funny how only Jake got to fight as a “middleweight” and come in somewhere in the mid-160s against welters.

Now go find me 10 meaningful fights (that he didn’t throw) where he came in at, say, 165, and fought someone who was 10 pounds heavier. You can’t. Because Jake always had the edge. His boys make sure of it.

 

If his supposed boys were protecting him they did a shitty job seeing as they were sending him to fight more avoided black fighters in their hometowns than any other white fighter of the era and werent even fixing the fights for him to win against these poor unconnected black fighters. Meanwhile Rocky Graziano is fighting has beens and never weres that he ouweighed by ten pounds in his backyard and when he cant beat them like Green they fix the fight to get the results they want. Thats a mob fighter. Funny how you tell everyone to quit watching movies and yet you have this goofy Edward G. Robinson vision of the mob as threatening non mob fighters with death if they didnt throw their fights and yet Sugar Ray Robinson wasnt a mob fighter and we have his own words saying Carbo ASKED him to throw the Graziano fight in order to make a three fight series (not at all unlike what happened in the Zale fights in which Zale struggles so badly twice with Graziano and then just easily blows him out of the water like a flea in the rubbermatch). Like I said, your understanding of how the mob worked isnt supported by the facts in any way shape or form. You can read from fighters biographies, interviews, old newspapers, and the four volumes encompassing the senate subcommittee investigation into organized crime in boxing that your view of the mafia as it pertained to boxing is straight out of Hollywood despite you claiming the opposite.