GGG vs James Toney at 160.

I think Toney deserved to win both. However, the first was close enough to make a draw bearable.

The second bout was close but clear, in my opinion, but there's a case for the wider card too, as you provide a basis for above.

In any event, for me, it is the sheer quality of the Toney/McCallum bouts, which is pertinent to this debate. I've neither seen Golovkin nor Canelo perform on anything like that level.

Going on about stats, ages, wins, losses etc etc, is just noise in the face of what is visually verifiable.

 

Who Jirov fought and didn’t fight has no bearing on his power.

He was a CW who fought at HW.

Upon reviewing Toney?

You have admitted that you haven’t even seen his fights against Mike.

What has GG done to be rated higher than James Toney?

 

Wow, I really disagree there. I watched that a few weeks ago for the first time in a couple years and had it 117-111 Toney. I thought both looked pretty lackadaisical, but Toney's defence was the main decider on a lot of those close rounds. - George Crowcoft

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

 

WHo did Jirov beat again? Who did he knock out? The guy was an over achiever, who lost to everyone decent he fought.

Middle weight enter the ring these days in the 170's, which was less than 20 pounds of the older cruiser weight limit of 190.

I plan on seeing the Toney v McCallum fights. Do you agree with George Crowcroft that both looked lackadaisical?

This is not a greatest thread, it's a head to head match up. GGG didn't get a chance to fight the best welter and jr middles like say Monzon and Hagler did. If he had Mayweather, Cotto, and Martinez on his resume, things would be different. These guys wanted no part of him.

 

Things wouldn't be different at all as Cotto and Maywether were not middleweights and Martinez was a one legged 40 year old around the time the Golovkin fight was talked about.

Golovkin had a habit of calling out guys from lower weight classes but he never dared to call out guys from weight classes above him , apart from Froch who had retired. Fanboys like you always supported him calling out smaller guys , but you always ridicule Hopkins for holding wins over guys that moved up. You are a complete joke.

GGG liked to hold physical advantages over his opponents which is why he never moved up and flat out refused to accept Wards offer to a fight with 50/50 split.. Toney was a stocky guy with a longer reach and was strong enough to ground GGG down with body shots.
GGG if you know what you are looking at went to great measures to protect his body from Canelo. Sergiy D hurt him bad with a body blow so its fair to say he has a weakness to body shots.
Toney was a good body puncher. If he can land body shots on a slick mover like Nunn , it means he will kill Golovkin to the body.

Another thing, Golovkin vs Sam Peter. . Who wins. Waiting on an answer?

 

Why are the rankings so relevant to you?

GG is very powerful, but he’s also had a lot of TKO’s.

He doesn’t just wreck guys with one punch.

He couldn’t knock out his best opponents.

If I ask you why he’s a top puncher in the division, you’ll just quote stats.

 

What is this based on?

 

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=denRV-BIqRA

 

So what, GGG is not going to KO James anyway.Your points are irrelevant as usual.

 

who exactly beat GGG? He only fought Jacobs and Canelo and lost to one of them.His resume is thin to say the least. Jirov kills GGG at 190.

 

Fail.

 

He has not been knocked out in close to 100 fights,He fought big punchers weighing 240 and 260 pounds in Rahman and Peter.GGG is not going to KO him.If anything, James stops GGG.

 

Watching Toney vs. McCallum 1 right here!

This content is protected

Opening observations:

Toney is a broad shoulder guy with shorter than average arms. He's not that hard to out jab, and he's not effective from a distance at all. He's much better of a 2/3 to 1/2; where he uses hooks, straight shots, faster hands, with good accuracy to score. His defense vs straight shots is nothing special, though he has some head movement from time to time.

McCullum. A lanky guy with long arms, and a fighter who just moved up from jr middle with middle. While he has a functional jab, its not that fast or hard. He's a bit stiff, not that hard to hit, but tough and takes a punch well. I remember him with bit more power, at age 35, I'm starting to agree with him that he's lost a step.

Round 1 10-9 McCallum with his jab being the main difference.

Round 10-9 Toney. He's all over McCallum

Round 3 10-10. Actually, I think McCallum was slightly the better, but to avoid any bias I'll call this one even as its the closest round so far.

Round 4. 10-9 McCallum.

***The commentator's said James Toney did not look good in the two fights before this. ( Johnson and Dell'Aquila ) Given that Toney was down once vs Johnson, he would need to win 8 rounds to WIN this fight on points. I highly suspect

This content is protected

card of 112-115 score for Toney is BS! The other two judges had it closer. 114-113 and 113-114. Who really won this one? Once again, Toney struggles vs a good but not great type.

My points: I see GGG's Jab scoring and it had power to it, and GGG hurting Toney more in the exchanges and throwing more overall. If you go strictly on 3 second highlights, Toney looks great, which is why I think his fans love these moments. They just often aren't enough to win rounds when he's being outlander.

I'll see if I can score the other round later. At this point I have it 2-1-1 for McCallum. If McCallum keeps his distance and energy level, he should win this fight. His ring generalship to me looks no better than average. My guess is at age 35 he gasses and the much younger Toney ( Age 23 ) starts winning in the later rounds.

 

GGG high KO% at 83.33%, video evidence of impactful shots, and the ability to put tough guys away. Which three middles do you think hit harder than GGG?

 

There's no results against elite opponents to support this.

Jones, McClellan & Fitzsimmons to start.
Benn, Valdez, Lausse, Jackson, Robinson, Ketchel, Hagler and more are definitely arguable.