If Patterson had faced Cleveland Williams instead of Liston?

Liston was a much harder puncher than Williams but CW was a big strong guy. Patterson was getting dropped by everyone & KO'd & dropped by Ingo but I dont think he would have froze vs Williams like he did vs Sonny. Big Cat could have dropped or hurt Floyd but Big Cat was not stopping class opponents. Floyd should handle him with less trouble than Ingo and his speed should be a factor. Floyd had an excellent offense but with serious bangers always vulnerable

 

Patterson could have been intimidated by Williams style. Williams was a big puncher with a lot of speed who also looked like Hercules. Floyd had a confidence problem early in his career

 

Wiliams 6'-3.5", 80" reach, weight 210 lbs. Floyd with "cruiserweight"stats, plus fought out of a slight crouch. Problem is Cleve was a nice guy too, and might not want to do, what he had to do, to win the fight.

 

I wonder what Ingo said about Machen?

 

Liston disagreed he said Williams was his equal in power.Maybe he would know best?

 

Fighters say a lot of things to build up their victorys. Williams just does not show big punching power or quality KO's on his resume.

All heavyweights can hurt you but IMO Williams does not present the danger that INGO did. He was a big muscled guy but nothing on his win collum impresses me

Like I said Floyd was frail to a shot to the head but he had fast powerful hands & IMO unless you could really Pop he could survive you. Williams may have had trouble with speed & could be hit & hurt.

This is not a fight I would bet on because Patterson was always shakey (he got dropped by Radamaker in Petes 1st fight)

 

Williams was a handful up to a level. He hit hard and had all the tools but if you study the guy in films against Daniels and Terrell he did not quite have the talent to utilise his attributes fully against better fighters. He lacked the subtleties to set things up, anticipate and work several moves ahead in the way fighters have to as they move up in class. Williams outlook was far too primitive to bother good fighters.

Machen can talk Williams up because he struggled with him. He has to say something because Williams was a guy who Liston demolished.

Liston can talk Williams up because he beat him and it makes him look good if the guy he beat was great.

In truth, where is the film of Williams best knockout win over a fighter worth anything?

I have seen nothing that proves Williams was better or as good a fighter as ingemar Johansson. Nothing.

 

Cleveland Williams analyzed as a "fighter":
Only 5 films of CW available. After film's introduction minute...then you can turn the sound off.

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I hope Big Cat got a good payday against Ali, he was a shadow of his former self & its a shame he did not have the best or correct trainers. I have seen many fighters unable to develope to their full potential by lack of tecnique or management, he had the most impressive physique until Vlad & Joshua and still top 5

 

He got chump change for that Ali fight, but the old memory cannot recall the exact amount. The sport of boxing always has these unrealized potential or "if only" fighters. It's very very difficult to have everything in place including physical and mental attributes/management/trainer/promoter/an offense/a defense/what was the competition like at that time/etc.

Tough tough sport and an unforgiving one. With Liston & Floyd around, plus and upcoming Clay, I don't see how he does much better.

 

Who's "and company"? Is it me?

 

I want to fight him again.

 

No.You're In Memory lol.

 

Nothing different would have occurred in this fight. Williams' power was not far off from Sonny's, and would still pose the same problems for Floyd, who would be gone in no less than 3, probably 1.

 

Not so fast!

Sure Williams had power and hypothetically he could stop Patterson. But Patterson had the power to hurt Williams and was a lot more skilled and faster.

Patterson did hang with "lesser big punchers" like Chuvalo and Bonavena and Ingo (at least 2 out of 3 times). Dangerous fight for Floyd, but based on pedigree, I'll go with him and I'd bet your paycheck on it.