GGG vs James Toney at 160.

Who said that? Source and link please. Toney did take Oldfield apart. Roids or not, it happened.

 

"Loudon wrote: I have answered ALL of your questions.

Struggling with Nunn showed his limitations as a boxer?

Ha! It was Michael Nunn, who was a great fighter, who was in his prime, and who presented him with an extremely difficult stylistic match up.

GG struggled with Danny Jacobs.

Did that fight show his limitations as a boxer?

Remember, if we’re not allowed to say that Toney wasn’t at his best for Tiberi and Williams, then you can’t say that GG wasn’t at his best for Jacobs.

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

 

Mendoza is just shook coz I provided cold hard evidence that Jones was the harder puncher than GGG.

Relegating McCallum to a none-great is ridiculous, as is using the Jones fight as a criticism. Especially given that Jones would do something very similar, if not worse to GGG, and that GGG has never fought a 'great' fighter anyway.

 

I been on vacation so I might have missed this. What evidence do you have that Roy Jones who was on PED's and tested 5 times the legal limit, hit harder than GGG? Please re-post it here, and I'll read it. Fair enough?

I never said McCallum wasn't very good, however he did lose to his bet competition almost always. I do think he edged Toney past his prime at age 35, which is a point Toney fans don't like to be reminded of. My score card with comments and detail are posted in this this thread.

Canelo is a great fighter, and sure-fire hall of fame enshrine. GGG, past his prime beat him, so ones you think Canelo isn't a great fighter, you're mistaken. Canelo is a greater fighter than say McCullum.

My review of Toney is not confined to Roy Jones, easily outclassing him or McCallum by the way.

 

Here:

See, he didn't. The best man he faced, sure, but everyone lost to Roy Jones. You had him beating James Toney, he clearly beat Kalambay, and he also beat Jackson, Collins & Watson. So of the six guys he fought, who I'd say are clearly his best opponents, he only lost four times, with four wins. And I've also explained why McCallum wasn't past his prime, even if you disagree, my explanation was more than enough to show why McCallum was still great. Even at that age.

Anyway, with all of the extremely high standards you're holding McCallum & Toney to, then no, Canelo is not great. Hence the quotations in my last post.

Canelo should have a loss to old GGG, Trout, old Mayweather, and Lara, as well a draw with Jacobs. So his résumé completely falls apart under YOUR standards of looking into questionable decisions and talking about people past prime. And then there's the weight draining issues.

So no, Canelo isn't a great fighter. Unless of course, you wanna retract your standards and give Toney some of the credit he deserves.

Good. As it shouldn't be.

 

You keep saying McCallum won past prime as a way to denigrate James Toney. Its obvious and everybody can see it.

Mike wasn't even past prime. It was the same Mike who looked truly great against top rated Watson. And furthermore , no past prime fighter has the speed , work-rate and athleticism Mike had against Toney. . Do you deny he pressured Toney with a high pace? I predict a duck of this question since past prime fighters cannot maintain such pressure.

Do you also think Golovkin would attack Toney with the same pace and pressure. You would be mistaken. Also , you picked Golovkin to beat Canelo twice. . You only made the past prime excuse when the fights were over.

 

Jones KOed Sosa with one punch. The same guy who wouldn't budge while fighting toe to toe with the best of his era. Sugar Boy Malinga took the best Benn, Eubank, Reid, Rocchigiani & Jarvis could dish out. Jones iced him with one punch. Thomas Tate is the only man to finish twelve rounds with Julian Jackson, and in it he took hellacious full blown punches from a man you imply is top three with GGG, and Jones leveled him, again, with one punch. Virgil Hill, a guy who took the best from Tiozzo, Ashely, Mormeck, Michalczewski &c; before Jones took him out with a single body punch. Don't get me wrong, none of the aforementioned are great fighters, but they're all big Punchers and men much bigger than Jones. They couldn't do what he could.

Enough? There's more. Reggie Johnson, a middleweight who went twelve with Tarver, was dropped twice by Jones. Even a guy like Mike McCallum, with his granite chin which went to war, unscathed, with Julian Jackson. Jones dropped him. Undefeated Griffin who took big shots of Jones himself, and while shot went 12 with Antonio Tarver, was KOed in one, by one punch. The icing on the cake is that a shot Jones, devoid of his blazing hand-speed was hurting a genuinely granite chinned cruiserweight, Denis Lebedev, with straight rights. And he did it multiple times. Even in their primes (let's say, for argument's sake, before their losses), both had KO% of above 85%.

Jones' power > GGG's.

You said you have proof. This isn't proof at all. Sosa was stopped before meeting Jones, and Ko'd 4 times total.

I could say Golovkin Ko'd Martriosyan in two rounds also, but point out that Martisoyan was never stopped.. See the difference? If I had the time, I could go much deeper here. You not giving proof or examining the other side while doing it like I just did in a compare and contrast.

If you want to compare KO%

Roy = KOs 62.67%
GGG = KOs 83.33%

If you want to compare KO's, as in ten counts, let me know your total. While I think Jones was a good puncher, I think GGG as a better one as a middle weight, no questions there. Did I mention that Roy's power was buffed by Ped's?

 

Quotes

 

For anyone interested in the debacle that was Mendoza's and BCS8's train crash of a case for Vitali against Holyfield, here is the point at which the 'Vitali version' of Briggs (along with Peter) is backed to beat Berbick, Thomas, Tucker, Holmes and Spinks.

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...vander-holyfield.630772/page-41#post-20552416


CAUTION: The linked thread should come with a mental health warning, as the Forum's answer to the Tremor Brothers tag team their way to both inanity and insanity.

 

1 ) I never said this so please take my name out of it. Its' dishonest.

2 ) You used the word all, not your limiting it to names. The person who said this use the word except for Ruddock.

 

You were part of the thread, arguing the case for Vitali. I did not directly attribute the comments regarding Briggs to you.

I was asked for a "Source and link" by you and "Quotes" by BCS8.

I have obliged. There's no dishonesty here.

I did use the word "all..." in conjunction with "...of Tyson's opposition of the 80s" (Ruddock was a 90s opponent)

How many of Tyson's '80s' opponents were better than Berbick, Thomas, Tucker, Holmes and Spinks, would you say?

Get the point?


No need to reply, I can't be too bothered with you today (or any day, to be honest).

 

No verison of either would beat Pinklon Thomas. With his chin, and at his best, I'd go as far to say that they have next to no chance.

 

Dude,

Can't you see the difference between McCallum at age 35 and in his 20's? He's so much quicker and better conditioned in his 20's. Get a clue. Toney fought McCallum when he was 35 and was well behind in the measurable push stats after 11 rounds. Don't you read my stuff?

He also easily out jabbed Toney. ( As did Jones and Nunn ) And Tiebri! Due to McCallum's age and decline in speed, reflexes, and conditioning, Toney was able to shine as a counter puncher.

When a prime guy in his 20's at middleweight fights a guy 35, the guy in his 20's, if he's really good should win by a good margin. That did not happen here.

Yes, I think GGG's jab which was more powerful than McCallum's would do a number on Toney, and GGG would be able to fight at the same pace. GGG also hits harder, meaning Toney is not going to counter punch or become aggressive as often. McCallum pressured Toney no more than a moderate to good pace at best, and he gasses at times during the process. When he tired, Toney became the aggressor. Toney was an easy mark at a distance for McCallum's jab. When McCallum became tired I think tough dirty and mentioned that in my fight review.

You really don't know much on how boxing works, do you?

Yes-- I along with the majority of media cards and fans polls think GGG beat Canelo, past his time when Canelo was at his best. Also Canelo was on PED's, so he has that in common with Toney.

All the cards from people covering or in boxing.

116 = GGG won
021 = Draw
009 = Canelo won [includes 2 Golden Boy promoters]

116/146 = 79% had GGG winning the fight.
021/146 = 15% had a draw.
009/146 = 06% had Canelo winning the fight.

 

*Cue a bunch of videos being posted, without context, in a lazy attempt to refute that opinion.

 

1 ) Don't attach my name or imply it to something I did not say. That is dishonesty. Yes I asked for quotes, you could gave left it at that. End of.

2 ) Outside of Ruddock, Tyson didn't beat anyone who at the time could be considered top ten material. I tend to think Peter could anyone Tyson beat in the 1990's. Who did Ruddock beat in the 1990's again post Tyson? Exactly. After Tyson beat Ruddock, Ruddock was never ranked again. Peter was ranked #1 at one point, and won a world title.