GGG vs James Toney at 160.

In an era with Pernell Whitaker, Julio Cesar Chavez and Roy Jones Jr, GGG never sees the third place ranking which Toney did.

 

How convienioent he suddenly became past prime as soon as his opposition drastically improved.

I remember the lead-up to the Jacobs fight well. Everybody including myself were expecting a one sided stoppage loss for Jacobs..

There wasn't a single observer who said Golovkin was past prime at 34. You are full of crap. You only say Golovkin was past prime to make him look better.
If the Kell Brook fight happened at 36/37 you would say he was shot to bits. . Kell Brook gave a glimpse at what would happen when Golovkin stopped feasting on bums. . Your hypothetical excuse making is a joke

 

Arthur Beterbiev is 35 so according to you he should be past prime. . Except he isn't. Far from it in fact.

 

This is fine. But you simply won’t allow for circumstances.

Now as you’ll see, I have answered every one of your questions.

So do me the courtesy of answering mine.

Once again, every guy on this forum would have put their house on a prime version of GG beating Dave Tiberi.

But these guys aren’t machines.

Whilst I’m absolutely certain that GG would have beaten Toney whilst at his best, NEITHER of us know what would have happened if GG had fought Tiberi UNDER THE SAME CIRCUMSTANCES as what Toney did.

This was the whole point in me asking my questions which you still haven’t answered.

Let me give you a hypothetical scenario:

A young, early 20’s version of GG, had fought Canelo twice, Danny Jacobs, AND 2 other fighters in just a 9 month period.

What would have happened?

Now obviously, nobody knows. But the point is, we can’t just assume that GG would have fought to his full capabilities in his 5th fight, if he’d fought 3 elite fighters before that point, with his 5th fight being just 7 weeks after one of the Canelo or Jacobs fights.

You are not allowing for the human factor.

What if GG hadn’t have been motivated to fight a C class guy, just 7 weeks after an extremely close fight against Canelo or Jacobs?

Nobody knows.

All you’re doing, is thinking about the BEST VERSION of GG fighting Tiberi.

You are completely blinkered.

Let me tell you this:

I would have put my house on the BEST version of Toney to have beaten Tiberi.

Now I keep telling you that the version of Toney who fought Tiberi WOULD NOT have beaten Reggie, Nunn and McCallum.

It wouldn’t have been possible.

Yet you won’t allow for an anomaly.

You won’t allow for the fact that he just turned up and went through the motions.

You won’t accept that Toney had fought a GREAT fighter who he admired in McCallum, before turning up UNMOTIVATED to fight a C class guy who had nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Now let me give you a perfect example of what I’m talking about.

Let’s look at David Lemieux.

By your own admission, you think that David Lemieux could have beaten Roy Jones. You rate Lemieux very highly and think that he was a very good fighter. And that’s cool. That’s your opinion, what you’re entitled to.

So please answer me this question honestly: (I have answered ALL of yours)

How did Billy Joe Saunders EMBARRASS David Lemiuex, WHEN he barely beat a EUROPEAN level fighter in Artur Akavov?

Please do me the courtesy of answering please.

Saunders was LUCKY to beat that EUROPEAN level MW, yet he EASILY beat a guy who you rate very highly.

How?

 

And Prince Williams.An impressive win

 

Progress is being made.

Like I said at age 33, GGG was starting to go down hill. By the Brook fight ( Age 34 ) you could see the decline. If Brook beats T. Crawford, that win is going to look really good by the way.

I think GGG was in his prime for the Murray, Monroe or Lemiuex fights.

His last prime fight in my opinion was the Wade fight, one before Brook. If you look at the ages, GGG was often the older man by several years beating men 30 years old or in their 20's. That adds something regardless of what some think of the quality of opposition.

GGG was #1 pound for pound rankings, so that's a peak Toney never hit, and at age 38 GGG is still #7 pound for pound rankings, which is equally impressive.

So you are saying Toney fought 6 top ten ranked me from 160-168? If your data is correct I'd say seven and add Roy Jones. I believe GGG is at a similar number and his career isn't over.

Yes- GGG was robbed vs Canelo.

 

A great knockout.

Was he rated in the Ring’s top 10 at the time?

I’d have to check on that.

 

No. Don't think so.

 

Yes, progress is being made.

Again, I will literally answer any question you have, as long as you do me the same courtesy.

Thank you for answering honestly.

We now have a base to work from.

So: His last prime fight was the one against Dominic Wade.

Cool.

So we won’t include the Brook fight.

That’s fine.

Regarding the rankings, that’s cool that GG made number 1. But you can probably guess what my reply will be to that.

Toney fought in a stronger era in the early 90’s. It was much harder to make the top 3 back then.

Regarding his opponents, I didn’t include Roy because your criteria was guys who he beat. But if we add Roy, it’s 7. And Charles Williams would be 8. But I’d have to research that.

Like I’ve told you before, these sorts of statistics aren’t greatly important, and it’s hard to do direct comparisons. Because it all depends on the strength of the division.

Most of the guys who GG fought up to the Wade fight, would have struggled to have made the top 10 in stronger eras.

Guys like Murray, Macklin, Monroe, Wade and Rubio etc, would have been lucky to have made the top 15-20 in the early 90’s, with guys such as:

McCallum
Roy
Hopkins
Toney
Nunn
Kalambay
Barkley
Jackson
Gerald
Eubank
Graham
Collins
Benn
Watson
Reggie

 

So it’s 6 fighters, and 7 if he includes Roy.

Now compare those guys to GG’s opponents, but only up until the Wade fight.

 

I think so.At light heavyweight.This was Toney’s best win at super middle in my opinion.

 

You might be right.

So that’s 8 if he wants to include Roy.

So:

Toney fought:

Reggie Johnson
Michael Nunn
Mike McCallum x 2
Iran Barkley
Tony Thornton
Tim Littles
Charles Williams
Roy Jones

All those guys were top 10 guys ranked by the Ring magazine.


Who qualifies for GG’s opponents?

Who were they?

Mendoza?

 

There's an ongoing debate about Pinklon Thomas in here!

It's ****in got it all.