Sure. Delusional people think GGG at his best has a chance against James Toney at his best at 160 and decided to stretch that fantasy into sixty pages.
A guy who arguably beat Benn, got robbed against Barkley as well as drawing with Toney is clearly no bum.
Golovkin would have been proud to have Sanderline Williams on his ledger; might have even been his best win under different circumstances, i.e. Williams could well have thrived amongst the Geale's, the Murray's, the Macklin's and the Lemieux's of the recent era. Williams/Jacobs would have been interesting.
Toney would school ggg and it’s not really a debate, I have no idea what’s stretching the thread out this long
Boxrec is not an opinion. You are just FACTUALLY wrong then. Now learn to deal with your defeat. And do not bother me again kid, you seem to have some serious psychological issues. Time to move one for me
Um, 3-1 is a loss, not unbeaten! You don't even know what an undated record looks like do you? Nobody cares, you say? You do. You admit by boxing stuff bothers you. To bad. Just imagine if I ever decide to get you your sad case. Most agree that GGG, past his prime beat Canelo. Wanna argue that? Sit down. In this thread, I focused on Toney past his prime In his 20's Toney drew to Williams boxer who 7 lost 9 or his last nine. Everyone agrees Toney should have lost to Tiberi? That would 0-1-1 vs fluff. GGG didn't get help from the judges, Toney clearly did, including his draw vs a 35 year old McCallum when Toney was in his prime, 9 year younger. Toney was down on points vs. Nunn, and IMO would have lost the re-match. There was none for Nunn. What was yoru score card here by the way? Can you be honest We know your score cards are jokes. Barely ending Johnson? That shows Toney's place! In GGG's prime he was far more dominant of a fighter and ever had to settle for draws, or SD's.
whatever.Toney is unbeaten has faced the better opponents.Toney defeated every opponent he faced GGG is 0-1-1 against his only top opponent.
Mendoza, Ha! Like you have? You twisted around my questions to suit your agenda. You couldn’t and wouldn’t answer most of them the way that they were originally put to you. It took you 2 weeks just to answer 2 simple questions. Anyway, despite that, I’ll answer your questions as honestly as I can. I definitely think so. I hope so too. I don’t think you realise that I’m actually a fan of his. I’ve spent hours arguing with his haters on here. I’ve defended him numerous times. I felt bad that he couldn’t get better fights. And Oscar’s antics made me sick, where he kept Canelo from him until he’d aged. The only issue that I have with you and BC8S, is that you have tried to debate on statistics where you haven’t allowed for context. Your behaviour is so poor, you actually garner dislike for him. I honestly don’t know. It’s so subjective. I’ve seen George’s list, and I respect it 100%. I couldn’t argue with it. But then I personally don’t possess in depth knowledge all of those guys who are on it. Some people rank on statistics whilst other people prefer to rank on H2H ability. It all depends on your knowledge of the division and your criteria. Nunn had the talent but he didn’t have the longevity or the wins needed in my opinion. I’ve never done a list, but I’d have McCallum on it. Hopkins is always in most people’s top 10. And whilst I have no objection to that, IMHO, he was no better than McCallum. He may have the title defences that Mike doesn’t have, but I think that Mike was on his level and that he could have beaten everybody who Hopkins beat at the weight. I think he could have replicated his exact wins, where he followed the same timeline. And that’s why GG’s resume isn’t that impressive to me. Although he’s a great fighter, I think many other MW’s could also have followed his exact timeline. Statistics don’t impress me in the same way as what they impress you. At SMW, Sven Ottke’s and Joe’s Calzaghe’s statistics eclipse those of Andre Ward, Roy Jones and James Toney. But that didn’t make those 2 better SMW’s. I think GG would definitely have beaten Williams at his best. But once again, you don’t and won’t, allow for any circumstances. Although Williams wasn’t great, he was very tough and durable. And we simply don’t know how GG would have fared had he have been fighting once per month. Toney’s schedule had to have affected his performances. So who knows how a similar schedule would have affected GG’s. At his best, I think GG would have beaten Williams by a U/D. I think GG would have beaten Sosa by a U/D or TKO. It’s very hard to speculate on this match up. Reggie was very fast and tricky. How many top class southpaws did GG face? Reggie was a better fighter than Monroe. I could envisage both of them getting a decision. I think Mike would have beaten GG by U/D. I think he’d have beaten Jacobs and Canelo too. Again, you have been disingenuous. Again, you haven’t applied any context. Yes, after the Toney fights he never beat anyone good again at MW. But that might have something to do with the fact that he left the division. Yes, he never beat anyone good at SMW either. But that might have something to do with the fact that he never officially fought at the weight. The way you try and spin things is a joke. Yes, he went on to lose 3 more fights. But they were against very good-great fighters, 2-3 divisions higher, where he fought into his late 40’s, before he retired at 40 years of age. Again, context. Now let’s look at GG and put things into perspective. GG struggled against Danny Jacobs and Canelo at 35 and 36. So that should tell anybody with a brain in their head that he’d have had no chance against Roy Jones and James Toney up at SMW and LHW, at 39 and 40. GG is now 38. So just try and imagine him moving up to LHW next year and fighting a 27 year old version of Roy Jones. That’s what Mike McCallum did. That is one of the losses that you’re trying to hold against him. It’s not about having 7 weeks preparation. Many fighters get 7 weeks to prepare. Again, you just shut yourself off from any hypothetical scenario which doesn’t suit your agenda. Having 7 weeks preparation is not the debate. That is not the point of what I was speculating upon. The point is, Toney had fought 5 fights in just 9 months. The point is, he’d just fought Mike McCallum 7 weeks earlier, before he fought Tiberi unmotivated. That is the point. Do you not think that Toney could have beaten Tiberi at his best? At his best, GG would absolutely have beaten Dave Tiberi. Absolutely. 100%. But under the same circumstances? Who knows. By your own admission, you finally admitted that GG never beat anybody as good as Nunn or McCallum in his prime. So as he never beat guys of that calibre with their skills and style, we do not know for sure if he could have beaten them at all, let alone back to back in just 9 months, along with Tiberi and another guy. We just don’t know. It is open to speculation. Again, the hypothetical scenario is: What would have happened if GG had fought Canelo twice as well as Jacobs, and then Tiberi just 7 weeks later where he’d have been unmotivated? Then what? We don’t know. You are only looking at a version of GG who was at his best, where he fought to his full capabilities. You are not looking at a scenario which was similar to Toney’s. If you followed Toney’s career, then you would know for certain that he’d comfortably have beaten Williams and Tiberi whilst at his absolute best. And we know that by looking at his other results against better fighters. You can cry ‘prime’ all you like, but he wasn’t at his best. People always say that James Douglas beat a prime version of Mike Tyson. He might have done. But he didn’t beat Mike whilst he was at his best. Mike was unmotivated. He was overweight. He just went through the motions. He hardly trained. He slept around. He got bashed up by Greg Page in sparring. So he wasn’t at his best. You can’t just claim that Toney was at his best, just because he was in his prime. Again, these guys are only human. There’s outside factors that can come into play. IMHO, I don’t think even the best version of GG would have stood a chance against the version of Roy Jones who Toney fought. Now consider the following facts: Toney had fought 46 times before he fought Roy. Roy was his 47th fight. It was at SMW. Toney wasn’t at 100% Now obviously when you think about a fantasy fight between GG-Roy, you’ll no doubt be thinking of a prime version of GG whilst he was at his absolute best. But how about under different conditions like the ones that Toney had? What if GG hadn’t have been at his best? How about if he’d have had the same amount of fights as Toney? At a weight that we’ve never seen him fight at? Then what? Again, context. I have answered all of your questions as honestly as possible. If you have any more I’ll be happy to answer them.
Excuses? What excuses? Why is it an excuse to say that Toney wasn’t at his best for Tiberi? 1. You have been given 2 links which I posted that says that Toney wasn’t at 100%. 2. We have a huge list of guys who Toney did beat, who were better than Tiberi. 3. You have admitted yourself that BJS was unfocused and not as his best when he was lucky to beat Artur Akavov. Dishonesty? What dishonesty? I have not cut GG’s career off at Wade you fool. I have merely focused on that period just whilst looking at his prime, because that’s when YOU said that it was. If you think that Mike beat Toney, that’s fine. That doesn’t weaken Toney’s resume. Again, Mike proved that he was still a great fighter at that point, by beating Collins, Watson and Kalambay etc. Prime for prime, by your own admission, GG never fought anybody as good as Nunn or McCallum. And when he was McCallum’s age, he didn’t struggle with anybody as good as Toney. He struggled against Danny Jacobs. Would GG have beaten Watson, Collins, Kalambay and Toney at McCallum’s age? The Jacobs and Canelo fights suggest otherwise.
