He has as good an argument as any. I see him getting beaten by a number of guys though, as happened in his own lifetime. He was far from untouchable.
Marty Marshall would beg to differ he didn't defeat Liston in his prime. So would Buster Douglas over Tyson, R.Bowe over Holyfield. How many of the fighters you've wrote about beat a proven ATG in their prime or close to it.? I'll answer that for you. Not one. Ali defeated 3, 5 if one chooses to count Patterson or Norton, whom I don't see as great, but they certainly could be with in the top 20-30 fighters in heavyweight history. So its not just about the Undeafeated era for Ali, its also about who he beat, how he beat them, the variety of that competition, his overall atheletiscim and toughness that's easy to pick up on because its on film (Unlike Jim Jeffries. who is just a record and reports from writers from that era) and its easy to infer how Ali would do against any heavyweight in history. So Stop kidding yourself no one else comes close to having that complete a picture of his career against quality competition as Ali.
Lewis was K'oed twice in his prime by fighters not much better than Mildenberg if at all. Lewis also took 24 rds to barely get a dec over a just about dead Holyfield. Louis was K'oed in his prime by Schmeling, Conn boxed circles around him for 12rds. One Kleichko quit in a fight he was winning against a light punching heavyweight because he hurt his shoulder? The other one was Koed 3 times in his prime. Marciano's best opponents were Lt. Heavyweights or old men. Shall I go on?
You are so confident and yet you didn't bother posting your own score card. What the scores looked like before you get your ass kicked doesn't matter anyway. Ali did better in rematches so if they fought again Ali likely stops him even sooner. He wasn't going to win that fight and Ali broke him down like a fraction. Beat the breaks off of him with multiple knock downs and opened up nasty cuts. If your best argument is that he struggled for a few brief moments against an awkward southpaw before beating the breaks off of him then you are basically saying the h2h goat needs to never struggle at any point of their fights and always be far ahead on any score card. Many of your posts come across as sarcastic and you're not an idiot so I'm not sure how serious you're being right now. Karl Mildenburger of all people is your counter argument.
This, all day. 60s Ali from Liston until exile was unbeatable imo. FOTC Frazier made it his whole life to beat him.
Ali absolutely deserves to be first cab off the rank. He's got the greatest W column in the history of the division by far. He's the best of the pre-giant era of heavyweights. I can see the shade concerning the big modern giants as there's a teeny bit of unknown there they had their weaknesses as well. As the best of the modern giants i'd have Lewis in second place. I understand the allure of putting him at the top and it's certainly not idiotic but it's Ali for me.
This is sacrilege, but no. Time passed him up just like anyone. And the number 1 head to head is not a guy who nearly had his head taken off by Henry Cooper. Also, he was beaten by Frazier, who I absolutely think is a top ten guy, but who some criminally underrate these days. So there is a little skewed thinking there, I would say. #1 in greatness and accomplishment, sure. Absolutely.
Lennox for me. 6'5", power, well schooled, an arsenal of punches, cerebral, gutsy, and, despite lore, a very good chin. I think the McCall fight was a Don King scewjob (and I don't wish to re-litigate it) so to me he only lost once.
I can understand people picking Lewis - fair call. I think he'd struggle with Ali's speed, durability and endurance. Guys like Foreman and Liston would also be no sure thing. If you feel the need to go big tho he's the one - absolutely.
Did he lose to Henry Cooper? Any pro fighter can be put on their ass by another pro fighter if he's clowning and got caught for doing it. Better left hookers like Liston , Patterson , Bonevea and others didn't drop Ali simply because he took them more seriously. Possibly the greatest Left hooker in heavyweight history Joe Frazier , Ali Fought a total of 41rds against but his ass was on the canvas only once. The Cooper stuff is nonsense and a reach when compared to other much better fighters with better left hooks had far less success against him. And the bottom line is he was winning the fight until the knock down and won the fight after it. Unlike Lewis, Louis, Both Klietckoes, Tyson , Holyfield and Patterson whom actually lost in the primes of their careers. Of that group only Tyson and Holyfield lost to opponents with the potential for greatness. Time hasn't passed him by because today's fighters are nowhere near his and some of his opponents skill level. They are simply bigger men. But as boxing history has shown for over a 100 years , any boxer over 200 lbs has the ability of defeating another larger boxer if he is better skilled and athletically talented. Ali would still dominate heavyweight boxing if we could time travel him from 1965 until todays era. Perhaps even more so.
A) Not everyone would be "put on his ass" by Cooper. B) They had to do no less than three rules violations to get him back in the fight. Dundee helped him back to his corner (illegal), they gave him smelling salts (illegal), and they did the glove split to buy him extra time. Again, I am not re-litigating it all tonight. That is all fact, and you can make of it as you like.
