A Helpful Guide In Processing The Win Over Chisora By The Charismatic Enigma That Is Oleksandr Usyk.

lobk · Nov 1, 2020

Wizbit1013 said: ↑

He is mandatory
If he dont budge he gets a shot at the WBO regardless of who holds it
Click to expand...

We shall see. I’ve seen mandatory sit on the shelf for years.

Wizbit1013 · Nov 1, 2020

lobk said: ↑

We shall see. I’ve seen mandatory sit on the shelf for years.
Click to expand...

I agree, but Usyk and his team seem very intent
I think AJ will vacate tbh

Usyk is in his 30s and hasnt time on his side
He is pushing for that shot

lobk · Nov 1, 2020

Wizbit1013 said: ↑

I agree, but Usyk and his team seem very intent
I think AJ will vacate tbh

Usyk is in his 30s and hasnt time on his side
He is pushing for that shot
Click to expand...

Yes , this all hinges on Joshua. He will more than likely take the fight with the biggest payday and get very little slack in skipping Usyk.

PaddyGarcia · Nov 1, 2020

GasTank said: ↑

Chisora put all his chips into this one since a loss here he can close the door on any future title shots.
Click to expand...

He won’t mind, he only wants to get paid and that option isn’t going away for him.

Oddone · Nov 1, 2020

CST80 said: ↑

Since so many seem gobsmacked to their core, wringing their hands, looking for any kind of angle to latch onto to spin Usyk's performance against Chisora as anything other than a success. Some saying he's not ready for Heavyweight, others saying he struggled mightily, a few poor demented souls even going as far as saying that Chisora did enough to win. Well let me break it down for you all. You either have no idea what you're watching, or you're so biased that your hate goggles have blinded you to reality, or you're being intellectually dishonest and trying to mislead more gullible posters, or worse of all you straight up don't know **** about boxing.

Now, onto the actual fight. Look, there's a reason why I wasn't all that excited about this match being Usyk's first big test at Heavyweight, and I wasn't bleating on about how Usyk is going to destroy him, because Chisora stylistically is perhaps the worst opponent possible for Usyk to take on in his first big match at Heavyweight.

As an amateur, a semi-pro and a pro, the main style that has posed problems for Oleksandr, has always been quality pressure fighters and swarmers, with a stout whiskers, who tend to be more on the slightly shorter, stocky and compact side size wise. Who are willing to take one to land one, who are relentless, constantly coming forward never giving their opponent time to think or breath, while throwing wild overhand haymakers, every shot with bad intentions. Even in the WSB and amateurs, that's the style that gave him the most problems. His match against Nistor, who's also a compact swarmer, in the WSB was probably his hardest. So the fact that he aside from a few moments early, pretty much shut out his stylistic nightmare in dominant fashion, is actually more impressive. Not only was this not a bad showing, this was a damn good showing.

Understand, the idiom styles make fights, exists for a reason. Usyk suffers against this style, and excels against almost every other. Floyd Mayweather, a master boxer, had issues with swarmers, and effectively aggressive pressure fighters, he could easily lay a schooling onto fellow master boxers like Juan Manuel Marquez and solid all rounders like Canelo Alvarez and Manny Pacquiao, but then look like absolute crap against cavemen like Marcos Maidana and still quality, but slightly past it fighters who know how to apply pressure like Miguel Cotto. Now does that mean the moment the bell rang at the end of the first Maidana match, people started prattling on about how Mayweather loses to everyone with a pulse from here on out? Or did they understand that oh wait... I remember, Maidana is just one of those type of fighters that is a royal pain in Floyd's keister? For anyone offering an honest assessment, it was the latter. Floyd had a weak spot, and excelled against almost every other style.

Now, onto the actual fight. Sure Usyk looked bad in the first two rounds. But Chisora and his corner, who've had basically over a year to prepare for this match up, have thoroughly scouted Usyk, and knew what gave him issues. He also knew that Usyk usually takes about 3 to 4 rounds to get warmed up, download his opponent, so he can dominate them down the stretch. So Del Boy knowing all of this, came out guns blazing, trying to impose his size on Usyk and ragdoll him around the ring. And unlike most fighters at Heavyweight, Chisora is actually capable of executing this strategy to perfection, since it's literally his style, only more often, he fights at a slightly slower pace. But he realized here, time was of the essence. Sure, he seemed to trouble Usyk in Round 1, who reacted poorly when eating a few bombs from Chisora, but hey... this was his first real taste of Heavyweight power. That being said, he acclimated to it quickly, shored up his defenses, weathered a bumpy second, then by the third he'd fully adjusted and he went to work. Aided of course by Chisora (as is the case with almost every other Heavyweight), running out of steam, their monstrously large bodies cannot sustain this kind of pace and level of activity, because they're massive lardasses, and they gas.

Now, if you were watching closely, Usyk was blocking, holding, pivoting away from, and parrying almost everything being thrown at him. Yes, he ate a few clean to the head, proving his has a decent beard once again, but almost everything else either did not land clean or was blocked. Well this sport is all about hitting, and not getting hit. It's the sweet science after all. It doesn't matter how good or bad someone looks during a round, if one guy is going crazy throwing a ton, but landing three, where the other guy is composed, throwing very little, but his connect percentage is quite high, then the second guy wins the round. It's the same reason why Ricky Hatton looked like a whirling dervish against Floyd for the majority of the match, yet hardly won a goddamn round, because all he was hitting was air, arms, gloves or shoulders. Yet even though Floyd was only throwing sporadically, almost everything he threw, he landed, then it started taking a toll, and by the end, he destroyed him with that check hook. The same scenario played out last night. Chisora was hitting arms, shoulders, back, legs, and mostly air, while hardly ever making contact with Usyk's body or head, which is the only places the punches count. So Del Boy's clubbing haymakers, that he bludgeoned Usyk's forearms with, meant nothing. But all of the shots that Usyk peppered the hell out of him with, clean flush to the noggin, meant something, and yes.... they counted.

So if utilizing the 4 main scoring criteria used by most boxing judges, Chisora failed in almost all four of them. Was his aggression effective? Aside form the first round, no, Was he the ring general? Aside from the first round.... no. Were his punches, clean and hard? No. Was his defense top notch? Absolutely not. Whereas Usyk clearly landed the cleaner and at times harder shots, his defense in most rounds was impeccable, when he was aggressive, he was effective, and on the backfoot and the frontfoot, he was the Ring General. Open and shut, quite easy to score. Sure, after he had him badly hurt and ready to go in the seventh, Usyk inexplicably took his foot off the gas. Well Del Boy tried to take advantage of that, but he couldn't. His aggressive was even less effective, and in between Dereck's spurts of labored activity, Usyk was landing in combination. So any talk of this match being close or hard to score, is utter nonsense and I don't want to hear any of it.

Also, a little consistency would be nice. As in, the criteria for slickness can't shift from match to match.You can't say one guy is laying down a schooling, while the other guy marches forward winging wild shots that are not landing or are being blocked and parried and getting lit up in between is losing, then turnaround and in the same breath.... say when witnessing the exact same scenario, that the guy marching forward winging wild shots that are not landing or are being blocked and parried, and getting lit up in between is winning.

Open and shut, Usyk struggled for a round, steadied the ship while not looking great in the second, took over in the third, and dominated the rest of the match.
Click to expand...

I genuinely admire you working in the word “lardasses” Kudos.
Too many HW’s aren’t conditioned to deal with someone like Usyk who can throw volume all night.

NewBoxingOrder · Nov 1, 2020

CST80 said: ↑

(snip)
Click to expand...

Some really great analysis there, IMO. Thanks for it.

I don't know if you watch UFC but I thought of a comparison. Stipe Miocic vs Daniel Cormier. Miocic does great versus large guys, but if you give him a smaller guy like Cormier he struggles.

Miocic is used to out-speeding and out-moving big men. But when you take someone smaller and faster than him, with smaller arms who can get within his punches, it totally throws off his game. Same for Usyk with Chisora. Makes it much harder.

All that being said, there will still be plenty of challenges for Usyk vs Fury/AJ/Wilder. But styles make fights, and saying "Usyk can't beat Fury because he had trouble with Chisora" (supposedly) isn't necessarily true. Your example of Floyd/Maidana/Marquez put it perfectly.

FrankinDallas · Nov 1, 2020

I think it's terrible that a man can be outweighed by 40 pounds and outbox the other guy convincingly, be barely out of breath after 12 rounds, stagger his opponent a couple times, take maybe only 4 flush shots to the head/jaw all night and be called a serious threat in his division.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic.

FrankinDallas · Nov 1, 2020

Saintpat said: ↑

Charismatic Enigma? I’ll tell you now Usyk is no Jeff Hardy.

Usyk is a fine technician but he’s about as charismatic as a tree stump and nearly as enigmatic.
Click to expand...

WTF? Usyk is funny as hell...damn near Dave Chapelle level in terms of what he says and does.

CST80 · Nov 1, 2020

Saintpat said: ↑

Charismatic Enigma? I’ll tell you now Usyk is no Jeff Hardy.

Usyk is a fine technician but he’s about as charismatic as a tree stump and nearly as enigmatic.
Click to expand...

And when exactly has Jeff Hardy shown even a modicum of charisma? And I didn't know have no personality passed for being enigmatic. I've never seen a less mysterious bore. He literally puts on face paint, and dances around like a drunken raver and throws himself off of the top of 20 foot ladders to distract people from the fact that he can't cut a promo to save his life and he's a passionaless automaton.

Saintpat · Nov 1, 2020

CST80 said: ↑

And when exactly has Jeff Hardy shown even a modicum of charisma? And I didn't know have no personality passed for being enigmatic. I've never seen a less mysterious bore. He literally puts on face paint, and dances around like a drunken raver and throws himself off of the top of 20 foot ladders to distract people from the fact that he can't cut a promo to save his life and he's a passionaless automaton.
Click to expand...

He is introduced as “The Charismatic Enigma.” Every single match. That’s where you got the phrase.

Like if you google “charismatic enigma” what shows up is Jeff Hardy. Try it.

Braindamage · Nov 1, 2020

CST80 said: ↑

Since so many seem gobsmacked to their core, wringing their hands, looking for any kind of angle to latch onto to spin Usyk's performance against Chisora as anything other than a success. Some saying he's not ready for Heavyweight, others saying he struggled mightily, a few poor demented souls even going as far as saying that Chisora did enough to win. Well let me break it down for you all. You either have no idea what you're watching, or you're so biased that your hate goggles have blinded you to reality, or you're being intellectually dishonest and trying to mislead more gullible posters, or worse of all you straight up don't know **** about boxing.

Now, onto the actual fight. Look, there's a reason why I wasn't all that excited about this match being Usyk's first big test at Heavyweight, and I wasn't bleating on about how Usyk is going to destroy him, because Chisora stylistically is perhaps the worst opponent possible for Usyk to take on in his first big match at Heavyweight.

As an amateur, a semi-pro and a pro, the main style that has posed problems for Oleksandr, has always been quality pressure fighters and swarmers, with a stout whiskers, who tend to be more on the slightly shorter, stocky and compact side size wise. Who are willing to take one to land one, who are relentless, constantly coming forward never giving their opponent time to think or breath, while throwing wild overhand haymakers, every shot with bad intentions. Even in the WSB and amateurs, that's the style that gave him the most problems. His match against Nistor, who's also a compact swarmer, in the WSB was probably his hardest. So the fact that he aside from a few moments early, pretty much shut out his stylistic nightmare in dominant fashion, is actually more impressive. Not only was this not a bad showing, this was a damn good showing.

Understand, the idiom styles make fights, exists for a reason. Usyk suffers against this style, and excels against almost every other. Floyd Mayweather, a master boxer, had issues with swarmers, and effectively aggressive pressure fighters, he could easily lay a schooling onto fellow master boxers like Juan Manuel Marquez and solid all rounders like Canelo Alvarez and Manny Pacquiao, but then look like absolute crap against cavemen like Marcos Maidana and still quality, but slightly past it fighters who know how to apply pressure like Miguel Cotto. Now does that mean the moment the bell rang at the end of the first Maidana match, people started prattling on about how Mayweather loses to everyone with a pulse from here on out? Or did they understand that oh wait... I remember, Maidana is just one of those type of fighters that is a royal pain in Floyd's keister? For anyone offering an honest assessment, it was the latter. Floyd had a weak spot, and excelled against almost every other style.

Now, onto the actual fight. Sure Usyk looked bad in the first two rounds. But Chisora and his corner, who've had basically over a year to prepare for this match up, have thoroughly scouted Usyk, and knew what gave him issues. He also knew that Usyk usually takes about 3 to 4 rounds to get warmed up, download his opponent, so he can dominate them down the stretch. So Del Boy knowing all of this, came out guns blazing, trying to impose his size on Usyk and ragdoll him around the ring. And unlike most fighters at Heavyweight, Chisora is actually capable of executing this strategy to perfection, since it's literally his style, only more often, he fights at a slightly slower pace. But he realized here, time was of the essence. Sure, he seemed to trouble Usyk in Round 1, who reacted poorly when eating a few bombs from Chisora, but hey... this was his first real taste of Heavyweight power. That being said, he acclimated to it quickly, shored up his defenses, weathered a bumpy second, then by the third he'd fully adjusted and he went to work. Aided of course by Chisora (as is the case with almost every other Heavyweight), running out of steam, their monstrously large bodies cannot sustain this kind of pace and level of activity, because they're massive lardasses, and they gas.

Now, if you were watching closely, Usyk was blocking, holding, pivoting away from, and parrying almost everything being thrown at him. Yes, he ate a few clean to the head, proving his has a decent beard once again, but almost everything else either did not land clean or was blocked. Well this sport is all about hitting, and not getting hit. It's the sweet science after all. It doesn't matter how good or bad someone looks during a round, if one guy is going crazy throwing a ton, but landing three, where the other guy is composed, throwing very little, but his connect percentage is quite high, then the second guy wins the round. It's the same reason why Ricky Hatton looked like a whirling dervish against Floyd for the majority of the match, yet hardly won a goddamn round, because all he was hitting was air, arms, gloves or shoulders. Yet even though Floyd was only throwing sporadically, almost everything he threw, he landed, then it started taking a toll, and by the end, he destroyed him with that check hook. The same scenario played out last night. Chisora was hitting arms, shoulders, back, legs, and mostly air, while hardly ever making contact with Usyk's body or head, which is the only places the punches count. So Del Boy's clubbing haymakers, that he bludgeoned Usyk's forearms with, meant nothing. But all of the shots that Usyk peppered the hell out of him with, clean flush to the noggin, meant something, and yes.... they counted.

So if utilizing the 4 main scoring criteria used by most boxing judges, Chisora failed in almost all four of them. Was his aggression effective? Aside form the first round, no, Was he the ring general? Aside from the first round.... no. Were his punches, clean and hard? No. Was his defense top notch? Absolutely not. Whereas Usyk clearly landed the cleaner and at times harder shots, his defense in most rounds was impeccable, when he was aggressive, he was effective, and on the backfoot and the frontfoot, he was the Ring General. Open and shut, quite easy to score. Sure, after he had him badly hurt and ready to go in the seventh, Usyk inexplicably took his foot off the gas. Well Del Boy tried to take advantage of that, but he couldn't. His aggressive was even less effective, and in between Dereck's spurts of labored activity, Usyk was landing in combination. So any talk of this match being close or hard to score, is utter nonsense and I don't want to hear any of it.

Also, a little consistency would be nice. As in, the criteria for slickness can't shift from match to match.You can't say one guy is laying down a schooling, while the other guy marches forward winging wild shots that are not landing or are being blocked and parried and getting lit up in between is losing, then turnaround and in the same breath.... say when witnessing the exact same scenario, that the guy marching forward winging wild shots that are not landing or are being blocked and parried, and getting lit up in between is winning.

Open and shut, Usyk struggled for a round, steadied the ship while not looking great in the second, took over in the third, and dominated the rest of the match.
Click to expand...

It wasn't pretty, but it wasn't close either. 8-4, 9-3 type fight. Good win for Usyk.

CST80 · Nov 1, 2020

Saintpat said: ↑

He is introduced as “The Charismatic Enigma.” Every single match. That’s where you got the phrase.

Like if you google “charismatic enigma” what shows up is Jeff Hardy. Try it.
Click to expand...

It's a person who mysteriously possesses an extraordinary ability to attract; having a way with words or actions. He's neither.

He has to try his heart out to be cool, and he fails miserably. It's just a cool nickname WWE gave him, which is no more applicable to him than Triple H calling himself the Cerebral Assassin, The King Of Kings or The Game is applicable to him.

Mr Icaman · Nov 1, 2020

Good take, I honestly thought I was watching a different fight to many of the poster in the RBR who were almost crying robbery??

I suspect David Haye is to blame here as his constant messages must have put a Chisora win into their heads..

Personally Usyk told a few things in there..

- You can't really rough him up or bully him (and he will be better for the experiance).

- He has more than enough pop to hurt you. (Imaging if the shots he landed in the 7th happened 1 minuted in, it would have been a 7th round TKO as Chisora was ready to go)..

- His stamina is far better tha you so you need to get him out early or you will be tagged to death and maybe stopped..

- Even if you manage to take him off script he still will beat you..

People seem to have glossed over the trouble Chisora was in and the end of the 7th round (almost like a Wilder Sconiers Fight wipped from the face of the Earth.) he was gone for all money and Usyk took the cautious option in the 8th because he didn't want to run into anything..

Overall it wass a good effort against a hard opponent who isn't scared to fight quality opposition ( explaining his poorer record)..

sasto · Nov 1, 2020

CST80 said: ↑

Since so many seem gobsmacked to their core, wringing their hands, looking for any kind of angle to latch onto to spin Usyk's performance against Chisora as anything other than a success. Some saying he's not ready for Heavyweight, others saying he struggled mightily, a few poor demented souls even going as far as saying that Chisora did enough to win. Well let me break it down for you all. You either have no idea what you're watching, or you're so biased that your hate goggles have blinded you to reality, or you're being intellectually dishonest and trying to mislead more gullible posters, or worse of all you straight up don't know **** about boxing.

Now, onto the actual fight. Look, there's a reason why I wasn't all that excited about this match being Usyk's first big test at Heavyweight, and I wasn't bleating on about how Usyk is going to destroy him, because Chisora stylistically is perhaps the worst opponent possible for Usyk to take on in his first big match at Heavyweight.

As an amateur, a semi-pro and a pro, the main style that has posed problems for Oleksandr, has always been quality pressure fighters and swarmers, with a stout whiskers, who tend to be more on the slightly shorter, stocky and compact side size wise. Who are willing to take one to land one, who are relentless, constantly coming forward never giving their opponent time to think or breath, while throwing wild overhand haymakers, every shot with bad intentions. Even in the WSB and amateurs, that's the style that gave him the most problems. His match against Nistor, who's also a compact swarmer, in the WSB was probably his hardest. So the fact that he aside from a few moments early, pretty much shut out his stylistic nightmare in dominant fashion, is actually more impressive. Not only was this not a bad showing, this was a damn good showing.

Understand, the idiom styles make fights, exists for a reason. Usyk suffers against this style, and excels against almost every other. Floyd Mayweather, a master boxer, had issues with swarmers, and effectively aggressive pressure fighters, he could easily lay a schooling onto fellow master boxers like Juan Manuel Marquez and solid all rounders like Canelo Alvarez and Manny Pacquiao, but then look like absolute crap against cavemen like Marcos Maidana and still quality, but slightly past it fighters who know how to apply pressure like Miguel Cotto. Now does that mean the moment the bell rang at the end of the first Maidana match, people started prattling on about how Mayweather loses to everyone with a pulse from here on out? Or did they understand that oh wait... I remember, Maidana is just one of those type of fighters that is a royal pain in Floyd's keister? For anyone offering an honest assessment, it was the latter. Floyd had a weak spot, and excelled against almost every other style.

Now, onto the actual fight. Sure Usyk looked bad in the first two rounds. But Chisora and his corner, who've had basically over a year to prepare for this match up, have thoroughly scouted Usyk, and knew what gave him issues. He also knew that Usyk usually takes about 3 to 4 rounds to get warmed up, download his opponent, so he can dominate them down the stretch. So Del Boy knowing all of this, came out guns blazing, trying to impose his size on Usyk and ragdoll him around the ring. And unlike most fighters at Heavyweight, Chisora is actually capable of executing this strategy to perfection, since it's literally his style, only more often, he fights at a slightly slower pace. But he realized here, time was of the essence. Sure, he seemed to trouble Usyk in Round 1, who reacted poorly when eating a few bombs from Chisora, but hey... this was his first real taste of Heavyweight power. That being said, he acclimated to it quickly, shored up his defenses, weathered a bumpy second, then by the third he'd fully adjusted and he went to work. Aided of course by Chisora (as is the case with almost every other Heavyweight), running out of steam, their monstrously large bodies cannot sustain this kind of pace and level of activity, because they're massive lardasses, and they gas.

Now, if you were watching closely, Usyk was blocking, holding, pivoting away from, and parrying almost everything being thrown at him. Yes, he ate a few clean to the head, proving his has a decent beard once again, but almost everything else either did not land clean or was blocked. Well this sport is all about hitting, and not getting hit. It's the sweet science after all. It doesn't matter how good or bad someone looks during a round, if one guy is going crazy throwing a ton, but landing three, where the other guy is composed, throwing very little, but his connect percentage is quite high, then the second guy wins the round. It's the same reason why Ricky Hatton looked like a whirling dervish against Floyd for the majority of the match, yet hardly won a goddamn round, because all he was hitting was air, arms, gloves or shoulders. Yet even though Floyd was only throwing sporadically, almost everything he threw, he landed, then it started taking a toll, and by the end, he destroyed him with that check hook. The same scenario played out last night. Chisora was hitting arms, shoulders, back, legs, and mostly air, while hardly ever making contact with Usyk's body or head, which is the only places the punches count. So Del Boy's clubbing haymakers, that he bludgeoned Usyk's forearms with, meant nothing. But all of the shots that Usyk peppered the hell out of him with, clean flush to the noggin, meant something, and yes.... they counted.

So if utilizing the 4 main scoring criteria used by most boxing judges, Chisora failed in almost all four of them. Was his aggression effective? Aside form the first round, no, Was he the ring general? Aside from the first round.... no. Were his punches, clean and hard? No. Was his defense top notch? Absolutely not. Whereas Usyk clearly landed the cleaner and at times harder shots, his defense in most rounds was impeccable, when he was aggressive, he was effective, and on the backfoot and the frontfoot, he was the Ring General. Open and shut, quite easy to score. Sure, after he had him badly hurt and ready to go in the seventh, Usyk inexplicably took his foot off the gas. Well Del Boy tried to take advantage of that, but he couldn't. His aggressive was even less effective, and in between Dereck's spurts of labored activity, Usyk was landing in combination. So any talk of this match being close or hard to score, is utter nonsense and I don't want to hear any of it.

Also, a little consistency would be nice. As in, the criteria for slickness can't shift from match to match.You can't say one guy is laying down a schooling, while the other guy marches forward winging wild shots that are not landing or are being blocked and parried and getting lit up in between is losing, then turnaround and in the same breath.... say when witnessing the exact same scenario, that the guy marching forward winging wild shots that are not landing or are being blocked and parried, and getting lit up in between is winning.

Open and shut, Usyk struggled for a round, steadied the ship while not looking great in the second, took over in the third, and dominated the rest of the match.
Click to expand...

It depends what the standards are. If it's whether he has any relevance as a contender at HW then sure he established that. I was pretty certain of that, I was wondering if he was a threat to the big 3 (assuming Wilder is still active and roughly in his 2019 form), and I remain a little disappointed in what he did.

A slow and a little hittable start isn't good against someone who does more damage or has more endurance.

Aint no stoppin · Nov 1, 2020

For usyk to win against the giant heavyweights he would need to do something significant. Sit down on his punches more or else they wont respect him and use their size advantage and just pick him off

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A Helpful Guide In Processing The Win Over Chisora By The Charismatic Enigma That Is Oleksandr Usyk.

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A Helpful Guide In Processing The Win Over Chisora By The Charismatic Enigma That Is Oleksandr Usyk.

lobk Original ESB Member Full Member

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