Anyone Give Norton A Chance Against Vitali??

So you still want to ignore the more pertinent point and just pick up on any hint of push-back on your flag-waving.

What does "levels above" even mean? What are these "levels" and, who did Vitali beat to have you believe he is placed so highly amongst them?

Vitali’s Ledger is a mass of wins over the 'long gones' and 'never weres'
Beaten by the best he fought TKO9 and TKO6

Name me one prime, offensive threat Vitali faced in his entire career. Then come back to me and explain why Vitali is so levelled-up.

 

Maybe the fact that Vitali actually was a reigning champion, shavers, cooney, and Norton would never reigning champions in any era. I’m not saying Vitali is the greatest, but he’s certainly better than these 3, and if you can’t see how the obvious difference in levels I’m not gonna bother debating with you

 

Vitali is not better than Ali or Holmes though.

 

Norton is the best out of those three and he's the only one I'd give a (smallish) chance against Vitali. When MM switches on his fanboy machine he's blind to anything contrary to his opinion

 

It seems to me that Norton was past prime against Cooney. Now shavers does hit a lot harder than Vitali who is mostly an arm puncher. Vitali hit Lennox flush with a punch he did not see coming and Lennox did not even went down. We all know Lewis does not have the best chin.

 

Vitali's title runs were some of the most depressing on record.
Norton fought and beat the Greatest Heavyweight of All-Time.
I know which of the above I'd rather be remembered for.

So certain and yet so unable to explain why.

LOL - This^ translates as: "

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You 'obviously' haven't been "debating" from the outset and your comment above is just more evidence of this being the case.

 

Yea your probably right. He hasn’t even come up with an argument yet, he just keeps questioning mine and he’s become so blind he think SHAVERS and COONEY are better than Vitali

 

No that is you. And I hope you do not pollute this thread as you have done with countless others

 

First of all , you said Norton had the wrong style for Vitali.. .I asked what that was based on. I didn't get an answer but i look forward to getting one with your next response.

All and all , there's not much technical analysis here and too much emphasis is put into Vitali's size.

Yes , its obvious he was the bigger man , but he didn't use his physicality much as he was only effective boxing from the mid range.

We saw how he was unsettled and had no ideas against Lewis when they were up close. He refused to walk Chris Byrd down and when Chris Byrd began to time him with body shots , he backed off in straight lines.

Its very clear to the trained eye that Vitali's style did not mesh well with the style of Chris Byrd. The problem with you Vitali nuthuggers is you refuse to accept that Vitali had flaws that there there to be exploited.

Chris Byrd exposed Vitali as being a very rudimentary and basic boxer from the very first round. If Vitali got injured , its because Byrd made him swing his arm out of joint.

You act like Bryd taking that fight on a weeks notice doesn't matter.. It does matter. And it would matter a lot more if he beat somebody else on a weeks notice that wasn't called Klitschko.

Its also very telling that Vitali didn't go for the rematch. That should tell you that he was not comfortable with the style of Chris Bryd.

Now if we look at his resume , the closest style to Norton he fought was Chirs Byrd. The 360 degree , hard to hit, upperbody movement style that unsettled and befuddled Vitalis attack was the SAME style employed by Ken Norton.
So tell me again how Nortons style was all wrong for Vitali???

How many times did Byrd take a sold hurtful shot against Vitali?? Zero times.. Why?? Because Vitali is a slow arm puncher and Byrd saw his attack coming before he even threw it. The same applies for Kevin Johnson who flicked and rolled off Vitali's straight 1-2s with ease.

Basic critical analysis will show you how technically flawed Vitali was by the way he threw a 1-2. . Observe how dropped his right hand down by his waist when throwing the jab , this was to correct a balance issue. He then brought his arm back up to throw the right hand.. There is a gap between the jab and right hand where Vitali is exposed to his opponent like a heavy bag. This is the reason his face fell off against Lewis.

Everything Vitali threw came from the waist upwards , which worked against slow plodders , but would not work against guys as fast and skilled as Norton.

Furthermore regarding speed , Sanders gave Vitali nightmares using speed and counters. If Sanders was prime who knows how he would have done against Vitali. The difference in class was clear during the early rounds when Sanders has some spring in his step.
Fortunately for Vitali , Sanders was fat , past prime , didn't train and only turned up for a pay check.

To be fair , i agree Norton wouldn't find it easy to close down Vitali. It would be a hard fight for him , but I saw this man close down Ali , prime Larry Holmes and being a bad style match-up for both of them. . I saw Vitali being totally ineffective up close against every guy he fought , guys that were nowhere near as good as Ken Norton.

Im no hater either , Wlad would likely beat Norton ,but a less skilled version of Carl Froch doesn't have to tools to defuse the awkward and unique style of Ken Norton.

 

Im in my 30s so how can i be blinded by rose tinted goggles. Boxing is the only sport where fanboys will pull for a minor league team to beat a major league team. Vitali's fan are the most biased fanboys ive ever seen. The guy is overrated beyond belief in terms of fantasy H2H match-ups.

 

No argument?

I’ve asserted that I think Norton operated in a higher class. You haven’t addressed this. Who do you think operated at the higher class, Norton or Vitali?

You’ve used Norton’s losses to Shavers and Cooney to make a case for Vitali. In response to that, I have:

• asserted that Shavers caught a Norton on the slide and Cooney caught Norton when he was absolutely done. You have not addressed this. Do you disagree and, if so, why?

• stated that I don’t think Vitali has the power of either Shavers or Cooney. You have addressed this with a strawman argument. Do you disagree and, if so, why?

You’ve stated that Vitali was “levels above”. I have asked you to explain what that actually means and to name me one prime, offensive threat Vitali faced in his entire career, i.e. who did Vitali beat to have you believe he is so highly placed in these undefined ‘levels’?

You haven’t addressed this. Who would you rate as Vitali's best win?


Don’t make out I haven’t made an argument just because you’re not able to address some fairly simple points and questions put back to you. Especially, when you have already categorically stated to another poster “

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So, your case amounts to an admitted and unequivocal unwillingness to take onboard anyone else’s reasoning against your own belief. You go as far as to categorically state Norton has “zero chance” and you base that on an appeal to popularity. Great argument - LOL

This is yet another strawman. I have not made any such assertion.

 

Agree with almost all of this, apart from @mr. magoo being a nuthugger.

 

Says the guy who thinks Holyfield beat Lewis, only to later change it into draw by saying their were two 10-10 rounds, which of course Lewis won.

If you know anything about Norton, he did not do well at all vs puncher, His style put him into the lion's den. Sure Vitlai's power is overrated, his opponents say the reverse. Those who fought Tyson compare him to Tyson! Got it. I

 

You overrate Vitali's power in my opinion

 

Your opinion does not better testimoials of those who took the punches, or his very high KO%. Two of his opponents say hit hit like Tyson, one harder the other almost as hard. I'll take their word over yours any day. In addition Vitali stopped two very hard guys to stop ( Donald and Purrity ) and in many cases topped his man foster than the field did, which is impressive.

One day you might get it.