Just how good of a boxer was James Toney?

Witherspoon wasn't; a great fighter, more like a very good one, boarder line hall of fame guy. I agree Toney was hot and cold, but he's not that good of a boxer, and I showed it by listing his key fights at 160-168 which is where Toney is best thought of.

I suppose I could mention Jirov and give Toney a few plus rounds but to do that and ignore loses to Griffin and Thadzi at light heavy would not be right. Either way he's still way in the negatives in rounds won to rounds lost vs the best he fought.

 

That's how I see it, and his power was good, nothing beyond that. On defense, Toney wasn't that good. He was hit frequently by jabs and straight punches. Speed and length definitely gave him problems.

 

Thank you for your reply.

Are you telling me Tiberi would turn down a big payday and a re-match? Not a chance. He would only ask for licensed judges in the state, which there were not in the first fight where he landed 170 more punches and was robbed. The fight shows Tiberi took the fight right to James Toney, and outworked and out-landed him.

The eye of boxing would be on the judges if there were a re-match. Speaking of the re-match, can you tell me why Nunn, Johnson, and Sosa, fighters who were either way ahead on the cards or nearly even with Toney did not get re-matches? I'm all ears Saintpat.

If I may ask, who do you think won Toney vs. Tiberi, and what was your card? I'm willing to use your data for this thread on that fight, deal?

Viewing Toney's key fights and showing how he did on the cards is a fair way to evaluate a fighter. Since the two of the judges weren't even listened to judge in the state, I supplied a card. If you want, I can PM you various scorecards from Toney vs. Tiberi, a lot more than 3 from people who scored it. You might like that.

If Toney was to use your words and excellent boxer, he would not have to settle for draws vs. a 35-year-old man, or two Split Decisions vs. guys who were mere top ten contenders, now would he?

 

Go away unless you want to talk about points made in this thread. END.

 

Toney came in over the 175 limit for Thadzi. Not one of the judges saw it for Toney. Although I'm talking about Toney at 160-168, I'm willing to go off tangent. Do you have your own score card to offer for Thadzi?

• Judge: [url]Tom Kaczmarek[/url] 116-112
• Judge: [url]Clark Sammartino[/url] 116-113
• Judge: [url]Don O'Neill[/url] 114-114

Griffin won the first fight and blew Toney away in the re-match. Re-match cards.

• Judge: [url]John Rupert[/url] 116-112
• Judge: [url]Keith MacDonald[/url] 116-112
• Judge: [url]Doug Tucker[/url] 119-109

All for Griffin.

As for the first fight, it was close but Griffin won it. Once again not one judge saw it for Toney.

• Judge: [url]Duane Ford[/url] 114-114
• Judge: [url]Bill Graham[/url] 115-113
• Judge: [url]Art Lurie[/url] 116-112

As I said before I'm reviewing Toney at 160-168, but if you want to add this to Toney's + or - in rounds won vs. top opponents, that can happen.

It won't help, he'd be down from -16 where he's currently to the following: -3 for Thadzi, -2 for Griffin1, and - 4 fo Griffin2, the re-match, moving bar judging his boxing ability in a round for round sense vs. the best 9 matches he had from 160. 168 and 175 to -25 rounds total on the score cards.


Regarding your cards, I think they are off.

Toney Peter I: 116-113 Toney. >>> Peter won that fight. Punch stats: Peter 259/637 41%; Toney 164/446 36% . So Peter landed more and at a higher percentage. Hit harder too. Pretty easy to judge.

Toney-Griffin II : 116-112 Toney (that was a robbery) >>> Wow, the judges had it 116-112 for Griffin 2x, and 119-109 for Griffin. 119-109 is bad card.

 

Who do you think won Golovkin vs Canelo 1? You score card please? I can accept what you say.

This is a different thread, and outside of that one small request, which I'm 100% sure you will avoid, GGG is NOT in this thread. It's strictly a James Toney thread vs the opponents he fought. No fantasy here please.