Anyone Give Norton A Chance Against Vitali??

Hold on you said, " Resume is pretty awful though, for a top line heavyweight. "

How many heavyweights beat more than 9 top ranked opponents? I think your list will stop at 4, and that't impressive. You tell me, I want to read your reply here.

Byrd and Bruno would not collectively beat the top 9 guys Vitali faced, they would have a more than 2 losses! That's like me saying Corrie Sanders could conceivably defeat all the guys Joe Louis beat. Do you agree? Please answer. It's your use of language one way negatively based on what would be a double standard if applied to another that I disagree with.

I think you are a fair enough poster to admit this. If not, I just gave you an example.

Byrd elite? Vitali beats him un-injured, easily. Agreed or not? I would like to read your reply. Look Roger Federer could lose to a no name in Tennis if his shoulder torn up too.

We have been over that Vitali wanted a fight with Haye, Haye backed out. Fact. You still hold this against him? Unfair McGrain. Same thing with Lewis in the re-match. Vitali wanted it, Lewis did not. As for Ruiz, he was a Don King controlled fighter and part of a bad round robin for the belt King controlled. That fight could not happen.

Vitali matched many of the guys who gave Wlad trouble or looses in Sanders, Purity, and Peter, and did far better in the process.

 

Mr Stats man back in action. His best win is who, a past prime, fat and semi-retired golf player??

 

Vitali would have beat Ali too, so that's not that big of a deal in my eyes.

 

I laid it out for you. You asked for the ring magazine ranked opponents, I delivered it. I ask questions, you avoid them. How is that a fair conversation?

Is Vitali in your top 20? Yes or no? You said differently before. Clarification is needed . If Yes ( this time ) That would qualify as elite in my book as we are talking bout 140 years of gloved boxing.

Why not list your top 20, and I'll point out your inconstancies and bias agains Vitali, using your own standards. That is a dare, which means you won't do it. But if you do, you'll have to move the goalposts again.

If not for the torn shoulder, who wins Vitali or Byrd? Who would have won the re-match? You can call Byrd elite if you want to.

0-1 vs elite, up on points in a fight that was stopped on cut, and the elite ran away from the re-match. I can live with that as there are very few elites, and he proved he belonged on that night. He did prove himself vs.the very best. As I mentioned the very best and top guys avoided him.

As for competition faced, I think many who know the sport can rip it for any fighter. Maybe I can better than most, which is why fanboy's get upset.

Another thing I think you factor out. The losses. Vitali never lost to anyone who in your opinion, wasn't elite, but you know others who you rank higher in many cases have. There are some inconstancies here.

 

This. I can beat a snail, a tortoise and a slug in an 100m sprint by a few days but it doesn't make me the best runner in the world.

 

Vitali is extremely under rated on this forum. He imposed his will on Boxers and wore them down. He had a terrific chin, Norton wouldn't have stood a chance against him.

 

I know how a reach is measured. Ken Norton faced the best jabbers (Ali and Holmes) in heavyweight history, and matched them jab for jab. That's why he was so effective against them. Vitali wouldn't bring anything from the jab department Norton hadn't seen before.

And Lewis didn't cut Vitali in one place. The photos are everywhere. The best jabber Vitali ever fought was Lewis, and Lennox tore the whole side of Vitali's face apart. Above Vital's eye in multiple places. Below Vitali's eye. Multiple places in Vitali's mouth. He was cut to shreds on the left side of his face, up and down it ... in only six rounds.

I think Norton does fine against Vitali. And Norton's overhand right would be very effective behind Norton's jab. It's a tossup over 12. Over a scheduled 15, I give Norton a huge edge. He had a good tank, even in round 15.

Vitali was a very good fighter. I'm not a Vitali basher. I don't think he was overrated. But I think Norton matches up fine against him. And the Klitschkos tended to avoid guys with big jabs. They liked to poke guys to death. You couldn't really do that with Norton. He'd jab you hard right back as you were jabbing him. He matched the best jabbers in history jab for jab.

https://miltonluban.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/lennox-lewis-photo-2.jpg

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/G78G8W/bo...x-lewis-v-vitali-klitschko-staples-G78G8W.jpg

 

Norton never fought a guy as big or tall as Vitali. Most know Norton could not take his power. I don't see this toss up.

If Holmes or Ali hit as hard as Vitali, Norton is getting stopped. On Ali, Norton out worked him, no man ever out worked Vitali.

Norton vs Punchers.

Shavers KO 1 loss
Cooney KO 1 loss
Foreman KO 2 loss

His lack of durability cost him here, early.

Norton vs medium level punchers

Garcia KO 8 loss
Ledoux Draw, Norton down 2x

Point being Vitlai is a puncher too, with good accuracy to boot. Norton didn't last long vs any of the good ounchers, and had issues with medium level punchers as well. No way does Norton last the distance here. Vitali fought some good jabbers by the way. Lewis, Solis, Donald, and Johnson for example. He did better with his jab in all cases.

 

The jab didn't feature very much in that fight. It was a war more than anything with finesse. I'd also take Lewis over Norton.

 

I think vitali might intimidate Norton slightly where Norton makes it a cagey affair for a few rounds, Vitali turns up the pressure, could ud him or a tko win. Norton never looks in charge

 

I know Ken Norton's record. I know Vitali's record.

Vitali fought good fighters. Vitali stopped good fighters.

But Ali stopped Foreman, Frazier, Liston, Lyle, Quarry, Bonavena and Holmes stopped Shavers, Cooney, Bonecrusher and Weaver ...

But they didn't stop Norton ... because Norton matched them jab for jab.

Unless Vitali plans to fight Norton on the inside (like Shavers), which Vitali didn't do really ever, they would be standing at a distance and Norton would pump the jab ... and Vitali didn't like getting jabbed.

And Norton's jab was a weapon. You can talk all you want about Norton's shortcomings, but his jab wasn't one of them. Neither was his overhand right.

Ken Norton wasn't Kevin Johnson, Manuel Charr, Juan Carlos Gomez and Ed Mahone. Vitali wasn't Ali and Holmes.

 

He is no such thing, Colonel.

Mendozy loves him. Everyone hates Mendozy.

I think he brings enemies together.