Outside of Clay, Lewis and Holyfield, didnt most Heavweight ATGs rule over 'weak' divisions?

yep he definitely does

 

louis, Holmes, Tyson and the k bros all made their eras look weaker then they were

 

Because the press hated change. Louis was not just the first black HW Champion since Johnson, he was the first to defend the title as frequently as he did, and not always against a popular outstanding appointed challenger.

Louis defending the title monthly against top 10 or best readily available contender was considered a cheapening of the title for critics desperate to find something wrong with him.

You can go through his opponent list and know these men were not "bums" it was a complete clean up of all the good to great contenders of his day.

But consider how previous official title defenses were rare events against an outstanding challenger it's easy to see why Louis' reign was smeared as padding.

Title Defenses before the "bum" tour. Can you see how Louis fighting top 10 guys monthly bucked the system? The hated Carnera was the most active Champion in the previous 15 years...two defenses in the same year....

Braddock vs Louis 1937
Baer vs Braddock 1935
Carnera vs Baer 1934
Carnera vs Loughran 1934
Sharkey vs Carnera 1934
Sharkey vs Schmeling 1932
Sharkey vs Schmeling (vacant title) 1930
Tunney vs Heaney 1928
Tunney vs Dempsey 1927
Dempsey vs Tunney 1926
Dempsey vs Firpo 1923.

 

I don't think the division was weak during Jeffries reign.

 

This thread brings Joe Louis and Vladimir Klitschko to mind I think a lot of folks question how good the fighter's of their era's were but to me they were just dominant fighters. I can see both of those guys have success in any era. I think because of their dominance folks just think that their era's were weak but the reality is those two era were quite strong.

 

Dunno if you're being sarcastic, but I'll give you a like and take it as on the level

 

I wasn’t being sarcastic bro

if I disagreed I’d just tell ya like

like when I told ya Langford would beat Charles

olde ezzard deffo ko’s Johnson not as sure when it comes to Valdez but it’s definitely a strong possibility he wins either way

 

I think it was certainly strong in P4P talent, but there was somewhat of a lack of good larger opponents.

 

I agree with what you are saying but you missed off a couple of fights there.
Carnera fought Uzcudun as well.
And Schmeling had a defence against Stribling.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with this post. I was very puzzled by using Tunney and Charles as examples for strong eras. Charles in particular. His era was routinely criticized as being weak. Tunney only had two defenses and neither was particularly indicative of the strength of the division. Dempsey hadnt really "won" a fight in four years and Heeney got his title shot by squeeking out a draw against Jack Sharkey which means he didnt really prove his strength as a contender relative to anyone else.

 

Charles didnt defend against any of those guys though. So he didnt really lord over a great division. He lost to Johnson and Valdez and that was after he lost his title. He beat Satterfield but likewise that was after he lost his title. The fact that three of the names (and the subject of the post) you listed were natural light heavyweights who had success in the HW division says a lot about its supposed strength and its not good.

 

Why does the fact that those fighters were blown-up LHWs matter at all? A LHW fighting a HW is not the same as a WW fighting a MW, for example. HWs are big but usually slow and lack skill and stamina. Tommy Loughran had good success at HW (he beat Jack Sharkey), and everyone, such as me, would have picked him to school a prime Max Schmeling. Was Louis’ era weak? Doug Jones have Cassius Clay hell, was Ali’s era weak? A huge number of people on this forum would have picked HW Charles to beat post-ban Ali, and Ali had his best wins after said ban. Both Charles and Walcott gave Marciano hell, and almost everyone would have picked Marciano to KO Joe Frazier and likely Ken Norton. Again, was Ali’s era weak?

 

Not so sure about that one bro

Literally the biggest Charles fan on here and I don't think I'd give him a hope vs Pre-Thrilla Ali.

 

Also, most people think Ali lost all three fights against Norton, but everyone knows Ali was still a better HW than him and that Ali was the best HW before his loss to Soinks or Holmes. Similarly, everyone knows Charles was a better HW than Johnson, Valdez, and Walcott and was the best HW up until his losses to Rocky Marciano.