Outside of Clay, Lewis and Holyfield, didnt most Heavweight ATGs rule over 'weak' divisions?

Regarding Wlad. There were lots of exciting fights under his reign, they just didn't involve him.

It's a shame Sultan vs Chageav didn't come off. I think that was a huge secondary fight that would have helped people see these guys as more than overmatched Wlad victims.

A huge problem with that era from a fan perspective, was almost all the fighters were taking the path of least resistance to get their shot at Wlad, who would shut them out in stinkers or easily knock them out. Can't blame them for that, but certainly didn't build the most credible opponents.

 

I can kinda see what your referring to, in terms of the perception of peaks and troughs, from one seemingly great era to the next seemingly poor one but, bearing in mind the timeframe involved, Wlad's era wasn't just dull - it was plain dire.

 

Wladimir's era was poor but look at this one we're in now.

Povetkin is still rated around top 5, at age 40+
Pulev is 39 and about to challenge AJ, and is rated borderline top 10 still.

Wlad beat both of them quite easily, in his 'twilight' stage of his reign.

 

Yeah - I hear you, believe me.

But Tony Thompson was getting a Mandatory against Wlad at aged 40 and Oleg Maskaev was the WBC Champ at aged 39, which was won by Sam Peter, having gone through a 38-year-old, Chubster Toney and a 37-year-old McCline, during the Wlad days.

And all so a creaking 37-year-old Vitali could make a comeback after 4 years and be a WBC garbage shoot for his brother.


At least in the current marketplace, we've had a little (just a little) more variety and some surprises, during this... ...whatever we want to call this era.

 

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Tim Witherspoon at 41 was top 5 in 1998 and of course Foreman at 44 was Lineal Champ. There's always old guys lingering around in every era.
Wlad in his own era was sparked clean out by an ageing 90's perennial contender. Corrie Sanders.

Povetkin now at #5 is probably better than James Toney at 40 being ranked #3 in the K2 era.. This division which is relatively young has far more life in it. Its only going to get better judging by whose coming up the ranks.

 

I think Holmes only really ruled the HW division 1978-1982 and then it was in a bit of a transition stage. After that Page, Witherspoon, Thomas and Tubbs came along, but of them he only had a close win over a pretty green Witherspoon, who never got a rematch.

Wlad's division wasn't bad at all, but you can't say he ruled it when he never beat the other supreme fighter in the division - Vitaly. While understandable that he didn't want to fight his brother , it doesn't change the fact that he can't really be said to truly rule that division.

 

Yeah, Holmes never beat the best fighter during his time (Thomas).

 

I don't know if Ali really ruled the division in the 70's. The wins against both Young and Norton were both highly disputed.

So I don't know if anyone makes the cut here. Louis truly ruled over the mid to late 30's and early 40's, but was it great?

 

You certainly can say that Ali ran the gambit over the top 60's guys: Liston, Patterson, Terrell, Folley, Cooper, Jones, Mildenberger, Chuvalo, Moore, Williams, Bonavena, Quarry, Ellis and Frazier. Only Ingo and Machen are missing from the really relevant HWs of that decade, but several of the wins were actually in the 70's, though.

 

Absolutely, but the wins over Frazier and Foreman basically gave him somewhat of a free ride. Those might have been the two greatest wins by a heavyweight ever...even if we don't keep in mind they happened within less than a year and a half of each other. How often does that happen...in ANY division, with opponents who both became considered top 10 ATGs?

The 90s were the last great era of heavyweights; however it's hard NOT to have Wlad as a top 15 ATG. He beat the people put in front of him, and they were legion. And he was...come on, guys, fess up...a great fighter.

 

Wlad is definitely in my top 10. His run ca 2005-2015 is one of the greatest ever in the divisions history.

 

I'm surprised anyone actually refers to Ali as Clay now tbh.

 

I try to refer to him as Clay for those fights where he was Clay.
And Ali for those fights where he was Ali.
In more general statements, he'd be Ali.