Could Jimmy Young have beaten Muhammad Ali in a rematch?

if it had been Ali sticking his head out of the ring it would be lauded as one of the greatest tactics ever seen in a ring

 

to clarify I WAS responding directly to the thread question and my answer is the same that Young possibly could have beaten him in a rematch. The first fight was narrow as it was. Ali’s fight with Shavers very close and most felt Norton beat him the third time, then there was Leon Spinks who DID beat him. I’m not saying that all those guys were outright robbed in the purest sense of the term but some of those decisions could have gone either way. As for the supporting cast In Evangelista and some of the other fringe type guys if we replaced them with a Foreman rematch, young rematch, or a fourth fight with Norton or even a young Holmes ( sooner ) It’s very conceivable that Ali may not have been a three time champ... Yes Muhammad looked out of shape in the Young fight as he did against Wepner and Evangelista. He was having a terrible time maintaining his physique at that point in his career... it was old age and years of ware and tear..... Ali was near done. No knock against him just a simple fact

 

Ali got gift decisions. It was rediculous

 

To answer the thread question - seeing how close the fight was a better prepared Ali would be the favourite in an immediate rematch for me.

For Young it could also well have been a mental hurdle that he hadn't been able to get the decision against an Ali that was clearly there for the taking. Ali on the other hand would probably have felt that he could only do better.

 

• "The reason I kept ducking through the ropes, seriously, was to take some of the pressure off me." - Jimmy Young.

 

Yes, and he probably deserved the nod in the first fight.

 

Ali was in no condition to press him really hard but it was clearly far more pressure than Young felt comfortable with.
Face it, Young was trying to get away from Ali, he couldn't even handle that pressure.

 

No. Young was a "close but no cigar" fighter. I think his negative style would always keep him from the grandest prize.

 

What’s so hilarious is that if Tyson fury had fought a fighter when out of shape and made his opponent duck out of the ring six times illegally to stop him taking his licks, which young should definitely have been disqualified for, fury fans would be saying fury kronk style, beast moded him to death lol

 

Not sure to many people would have actually wanted to see a rematch.
But, if they had gone again, Ali gets himself in better shape and Young comes in more confident after his performance in the last fight.
It would be a very close run fight with both having good and bad rounds.
No kds and no blood but this one's unpredictable.
Ali puts on one of the best fights for years, but so does Jimmy.
At the end of 15 it's a split decision for the winner and.... Still heavyweight champion of the world.. Muhammed Aliiiiiii.
But a good few in the crown chant bullcrap and Young wuz robbed!

 

Or, it looks like Dokes-Young.

People who say "Ali was barely getting by" at that point leave out that Jimmy Young lost to Norton at the end of 1977, didn't win a fight at all in 1978 and lost two out of three fights in 1979.

Jimmy Young NEVER WON A FIGHT when he was 29 (only had one that year against Ocasio), and when he turned 30, Young only won ONE out of three fights (losing the rematch with Ocasio in the return and to Dokes).

And none of those were controversial losses.

Their first meeting - when Young was in the best shape of his entire heavyweight run in the 70s (weighing 209) and Ali was in his absolute worst shape of the 1970s - was close.

An in-shape Ali does fine. Hell, the Ali who fought Spinks (EITHER TIME) in 78 against the Young who fought Ocasio in 78 is an easy win for Ali.

Young at his best couldn't beat Ali at his worst. It wasn't going to get easier if Ali actually took it seriously.

 

The long and the short of it.

And though I have Young winning the fight by a round or so, I think it's hard to overemphasise how poor shape Ali was in. Old, war torn, complacent and underprepared. If you get to face the champ on that night and still don't make a clear case for yourself, chances are that you blew your shot.

 

https://www.ringtv.com/598621-book-excerpt-muhammad-ali-beats-jimmy-young-thanks-to-gift-decision/

 

Mark Kram of Sports Illustrated wrote about Young putting his head out of the ring, literally ducking out, to avoid getting hit, "It was unconscionable behavior for a man who wants the heavyweight championship of the world."

Mark Kram also wrote about the fight "There was no way anyone could justify taking the title from Ali." Kram explained that to the Judges, and the referee, Young’s behavior was simply inexcusable, and it cost him the fight and the title.

Young himself admitted he ducked out of the ring to avoid getting hit, saying “The reason I kept ducking through the ropes, seriously, was to take some of the pressure off me."

The UPI correctly called the fight saying “Jimmy Young would be heavyweight champion today but for a tactical error - six times he ducked out of the ring when pressured by Ali. It cost him a round outright, the 12th, and points in four others,” and it was the difference in the fight.

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So the bottom line is simple: it is illegal to duck out of the ropes to avoid fighting. Jimmy Young did it six times in five rounds, and it cost him the fight. He literally put his entire upper body out of the ring. You cannot do that, especially in five different rounds, six times, to the point the referee gets tired of warning you, and taking points, and calls it a knockdown!

Ali won because Young blatantly, illegally, kept ducking out of the ring, even after Tom Kelly repeatedly warned him.

Those three fights are still controversial, because they were all close, but when examined carefully, all the decisions were correct, and Ali was not gifted a win in any of them, though Ken Norton ruefully said many times that his corner having him hold back in the final rounds “gave the fights away,” as he said in “Going the Distance: The Ken Norton Story.” Young gave the fight to Ali when he kept ducking out of the ring to avoid getting hit.

But the decisions were fair, and Ali won them all.

 

Depending when the rematch takes place. Muhammad Ali as great as he was, looked very inept in his title defense against Ken Norton on Sept 28 1976, in Yankee Stadium. He was lucky that Ken could not close the show. This followed with a lackluster title defense with Alfredo Evangelista, the the fight against Earnie Shavers on Sept 29 1977 in Madison Square Garden, then the loss to Leon Spinks. I really believe that if Ali had fought Jimmy Young instead of Evangelista, Young would have won that fight on points. Muhammad Ali's prime years of 1964-1967 were long gone. Maybe his opposition was better in the 1970's but he was far too vulnerable, he got hit more, something that did not happen in his first title reign. The Rope A Dope was far too utilized which led to future Neurological issues. In the second tile reign, he lost all desire to train, he was pure show. Jimmy Young was a hungry contender in the 1970's.