Mike Tyson vs. Roy Jones - Should it be added to their records as a No-Decision? Hear me out.

There is always a lot of debate in Classic about 'no decision' fights in boxing's history. Top names of the past often fought several times a month (or even several times a week) in no-decision bouts.

As we've learned, no-decisions were bouts where no decision was rendered by official judges, but the media in attendance (newspapers) would often give their verdict. Heavy betting was also common. The fights were often staged without athletic commission approval.

In no-decision bouts, the boxers agreed beforehand that neither could win/or lose officially unless by knockout. However, before fights, boxers often agreed not to try too hard for the KO. That's why so many boxers agreed to participate in no-decisions. It was good money, there was often a 'gentleman's agreement' not to take each other's heads off, and everyone benefitted.

Looking back on last Saturday night, that was not your typical exhibition fight.

It was billed as an exhibition, but exhibitions in the past often involved boxers like Evander Holyfield fighting Mitt Romney, Muhammad Ali boxing the Mayor of Atlanta, and when greats in the past got together for exhibitions, like Pep and Saddler, the fights were routinely just a round or two. They just went through the motions.

Tyson-Jones, on the other hand, was scheduled for eight rounds. No official decision would be rendered but 'media' - boxing writers via 'social' media and celebrities on hand - were there to call it either way. No athletic commission approved it. They announced beforehand that they wouldn't go for the knockout, and Tyson clearly just focused on Roy's body, avoiding the head. Yet, everyone expected a fight. The boxers were both mixing it up. There was plenty of gambling on the fight going on. Both fighters agreed to it because they could make some nice money. (Tyson made $10 million, reportedly.)

And, if Tyson had gotten mad and knocked out Roy Jones, nobody would've been able to stop him. And lots of money would've been made by gamblers. And everyone online would be showing replays and crowing how brutal the KO was.

So isn't what we saw last Saturday, in effect, an 8-round no-decision fight ... in the most classic sense?

Replace the black stage and bright lights in 2020 with a smoke-filled hall in Philadephia in 1920 (or even earlier with guys like Jack Johnson and Joe Jeanette), put the same fight on as last Saturday, and that's what you've got. Correct?

Tyson wants to do more. Buster Douglas wants to fight him now. Lennox Lewis says he'd like to fight Bowe. With Bowe and Tyson, there is a good chance those matchups wouldn't be as friendly as Tyson-Jones was. Someone is going to catch a hard shot and then it'll be on.

Two questions:

1. Should this fight - and subsequent fights - go on those boxers' records as No-Decisions? (If no-decisions in the past are, I kind of think these 8-rounders should.)

2. Watching that Saturday, does it lead you to question your opinions on boxers in the past who fought a lot of fights like the one Saturday?

Meaning, it is clear you can add a lot of "big names" to your record in no-decision affairs if you know going in nobody is going to try to take each other's head off and nobody will officially lose (and make good money in the process).

Because these fights can be staged on PPV (this century's equivalent of a profitable small hall) and we might be seeing a lot of them in 2021.

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Example, how many of Jack Johnson and Joe Jeanette's fights were no-decision affairs scheduled for three or six rounds?

How many of those were, in reality, basically Tyson-Jones?

 

To continue the argument, we've also heard people in classic say "so and so" (fill in the name) fought this "name" in a no-decision and two weeks later fought another name in a no-decision.

Roy Jones could do what he did last Saturday again a week from now. He could do that against Holyfield (just throwing out a name). Same rules. Box eight rounds. Not really win, but not get hurt.

And Jones could say he went 16 rounds and boxed two no-decisions with Mike Tyson and Evander Holyfield in the same month.

He is totally capable of doing that. And Jones is 51. He isn't superman right now, by any means. And Tyson and Holyfield can still handle themselves in the ring. They aren't bloated old cows. And they are also pretty big names to add to your record.

Is this "really" any different than guys 100 years ago used to do, fighting names a couple times in a month in no-decisions?

 

Boxing records sites like Boxrec now add a second entry for World Boxing Super Series fights (that don't fit in the category of Amateur or Pro) because the boxers originally said they wouldn't compete if it went on their pro records (but they are pro fights).

Should record-keeping sites remove no-decision bouts from a boxers' record (even the KOs - since there were KOs in WBSS, too) and put all fights scheduled for no-decision in a separate category?

If not, are they going to add KO wins to fighters like Mike Tyson if he stretches Buster Douglas in their eight-rounder (should that occur) ... since they add KOs when boxers in the past scored them in no-decision fights?

Work with me here (LOL). Let's talk.

Whether you agree or disagree. I'm tired of "mythical who wins" threads.

I'm not trying to bash anyone in the past. It just became "really clear" watching that Saturday how it was essentially a no-decision fight. So where should it fit in the history of other no-decision fights?

This is actually happening now. And it involves classic fighters.

It would be nice if there was a clear way we should view these going forward. Because they will keep coming.

And there should be SOME consistency in how they are viewed historically, if there is really no difference.

 

I had you on ignore. Unclicked it to see what you wrote. And remembered why I had you on ignore. (LOL)

The fight Saturday checked every box of a classic no-decision contest. Correct?

Then make a case for it not to be considered as one. Or go back to the "fantasy who wins insult threads." There are a myriad of those.

I'd like to actually have a "real" discussion about this.

 

I agreed with your first sentence and told people the same BEFORE I saw the fight.

Now that I have, I've changed my mind.

I think if you looked at fights listed as "exhibitions" in our lifetimes (Holyfield-Romney/De La Hoya-Shaq) ...

And looked at footage of no-decision fights ...

The eight-rounder Saturday clearly belongs in the no-decision category.

 

The celebrities didn't 'score' it officially using a points system or anything of the like. Snoop was stoned, and everyone around him probably was too, from the smoke. It was announced before there would be no official scoring.

But there was boxing media on social media watching it live and nearly all announced who they "thought" won ... typical of a classic no-decision where local newspapermen would announce in their coverage who they had winning.

It basically looked like footage from every eight rounds of no-decision boxing I've seen through time.

It wasn't Foreman vs. Mike "The Giant" White or any of that nonsense. That's why I find it difficult to just toss it into that category. It wasn't remotely the same.

It was a no-decision eight rounder.

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I didn't have any interest either. Kept trying to tell people it would be a joke. Was shocked how excited on Social Media everyone Checked it out. Frankly, it was better than many fights recently.

Both guys were in shape and did what they do. Both were pros about it. Tyson showed really good boxing skills fighting someone his height for a change (he was the better boxer, frankly). But you could see he just focused on the body when Jones started getting a little overwhelmed towards the end. Still, the body shots were solid. He just laid off the head.

You should watch it. Neither guy embarrassed himself. It was fine. It was a no-decision eight rounder in really every sense. It was actually pretty fascinating to see them in the ring together for that long.

 

This fight probably fits in that category, too. I doubt Tyson would've passed a PED test. The "low T" guy seems to have gotten more "T" recently. (LOL)

Maybe they have to label them going in as exhibitions these days and not 'no decision' fights to avoid the athletic commissions entirely.

Because it was a classic no-decision bout.

 

I wonder how many people here haven't seen Tyson vs. Jones and just avoided it because they thought it would be bad, like I did initially?

If you haven't seen it, check it out and then come back and post.

More closely resembles a Jess Willard-Frank Moran no-decision 10-round fight for the world title moreso than Ali and Holyfield falling down with all the politicians they had "exhibitions" with.

It just has no business in that category.

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Full fight. A solid, eight-round, no-decision fight in the classic sense of the term.

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