Is Luis Ortiz the biggest waste of talent of this generation?

That's the story they came up with when Hearn exposed how much they had turned down after they called it a low ball offer and then everyone started criticising Ortiz for not taking it. $5 mill is basically what Joshua had been paying for mandatory defences for Ortiz to be offered that and call it low ball offer and then Ortiz to say he didn't know what was offered seems a bit fanciful. I mean how do you not know what you are being offered to fight. Even if your manager says it's a low ball offer you'd ask how much they offered at least I would rather than just taking the word of my manager.

In some ways you could say he overachieved, he was never a top amateur even in Cuba he was usually the 2nd or 3rd best heavyweight and so never got picked for the Olympics.

He turned pro with very little fan fair or attention it wasn't until he beat a then very overrated Jennings that people took notice. You look at his resume, boxers with better winning records than his have achieved less.

How talented he is is hard to gauge because we don't really know hot good or bad he is. His experience at the top level is very limited with 2 losses to Wilder and a win over Jenngings. Maybe he's super talented but lacks the drive to be better or maybe he's just only solid but been given some opportunities he hasn't earned.

 

No that award goes to broner.

 

Is there such a creature as a “Clean Miller”?

 

No, he had two bites at the cherry and lost both times.

That's not a waste of talent, that's someone being better.

 

Ivan Dychko, his former sparring partner, might end up being the biggest waste of talent IMO

 

No as he was never that good if we are being honest

 

No, I believe the biggest waste of talent in Luis Ortiz' generation was Jimmy Young. Young beat Foreman, and almost beat Ali.

 

It appears to me, as Ortiz fan, that everything just came too late for him. He had to escape Cuba to get to the US, by the time he got to fight the big guys, he didn't even have the professional training he now has. His age is a factor, but apart from that he's a decent fighter, worthy of challenging champions if you compare him to other frauds like Charr, Martin, Breazeale and so forth, Ortiz is a decent top 10 fighter. Technically skilled, but not really throwing combinations, just lurking for a big left while fainting quite frequently. Good footwork, good uppercuts and multiple jabs, knew how to fight Wilder but got clipped. First fight could have been ended in favor of Ortiz if it was for another referee. Maybe it was Ortiz who showed the blueprint to beat Wilder?

Wasted talent but not due to his own mistakes, just circumstances played against his cards. People don't call him out, he needs to push people to fight him. Joshua fight failed in my opinion because the Wilder 2 fight was already signed behind the scenes. Whyte-Ortiz failed too, both parties can be blamed, they had a chance to fight.

My guess is that Joshua will fight Ortiz in a US comeback fight next year if the situation allows it. Fury Ortiz can happen if Fury blesses him with that fight.

May not be the ATG fighter, but people here act like he's still an amateur fighter. For me he showed good performance in his career, worth of fighting today's champions, I'd watch him even in a Wilder trilogy, knowing that he'd outbox Wilder again, but get clipped in the end.

 

Very hard to argue any of this. Good summation.

 

To some degree he is a victim of circumstance. He did turn pro late at 30. Though Joe Joyce turned pro at 32 and is already at a stage in his career where he's had his breakout fight 3 years into his pro career while it would take Ortiz another 2 years to get noticed by beating Jennings. Though Joyce does have the benefit of being a Brit and being an Olympic medalist, though even Joyce was regarded as over looked. Maybe if Ortiz had been a more celebrated Cuban amateur fighter he'd have made more waves and made people take notice sooner.

But he's also squandered opportunities. He twice backed down from fighting Ustinov in an eliminator that would of lead him to being mandatory way back in 2016. He also of course turned down a $5 mill payday to fight Joshua which Ruiz took and shocked the world with, that could of easily been Ortiz KOing Joshua.

I don't think people treat him like an amateur he's not been an amateur for over a decade. People just think it's hard to gauge his true level because he's had so few meaningful fights. He's obviously not a fraud, nobody crushes Jennings like that and isn't legit world class but how good is he really. Not good enough to beat Wilder obviously but how about Povetkin, Whyte, Chisora, Hunter, Parker etc. Boxing fans would like to know instead he remains a bit of a mystery which obviously isn't all his fault as people are not lining up to fight him but that makes the couple of opportunities he has squandered all the more infuriating.

 

Not even close.

Hes gotten to fight plenty of good fights.

Sure it would have been nice to see him go pro 5 years earlier, but other than that, he was moved about as well as could be expected.

Beterbiev is a waste of talent.
Rigo is a phenomenal waste of talent.
Andrade is an enormous waste of talent.

Ortiz has fought regularly and against solid to good opposition.

He was found wanting against Wilder, and thats about it.

 

In terms of accomplishments, Luis Ortiz is arguably the most successful Cuban heavyweight in history.

After a late start as a pro, he's won 32 fights. Scored 27 knockouts. Only lost to one person.

Ortiz won the World Boxing Association "interim" heavyweight title twice. Made one successful defense (against Jennings). Fought for the WBC heavyweight title twice and fought excellent fights both times.

His problem was PEDs. Failed two PED tests. The first failed test cost him one of his WBA belts (in 2014). The second cost him a shot at Wilder in 2017. If he had held on to that WBA belt in 2014, his whole career may have been different. Could've easily knocked off Chagaev, IMO. Or he'd have been in position to fight a mandatory with the old Wlad who Fury faced.

So, huge mistake on his part. And it's cost him. He probably should've achieved more, without a doubt.

On the other hand, name all the professional Cuban heavyweights who were more successful in this division?

Not Oldanier Solis, the Castillo brothers (Elicier and Eliseo), Jorge Luis Gonzales, Juan Carlos Gomez (at heavy), Yanqui Diaz (who blew out Gomez), Mike Perez, Jose Ribalta, Robert Alfonso ... Nino Valdes beat a couple of bigger names, but never even received a title shot (different era, to be fair).

Frank Sanchez may achieve more, some day.

But, as it stands, Ortiz is probably the most accomplished professional Cuban heavyweight in history. Although, Valdes has a legit claim in terms of better opponents he's beaten.

So, Ortiz is at worst #2.

Fellow Cuban Odlanier Solis may have a claim as the biggest waste of talent.

 

Good post, but one correction: Ortiz tested positive for blood pressure meds, not PEDs, in 2017, and it delayed his shot at Wilder by 6 months. It wasn't that big of a deal in terms of the bug picture, and probably gave him a chance to improve his blood pressure.

He also was affected by the politics of boxing. Hearn really showed no inclnation to get him in with Joshua and he sat around for a long time once his Wilder shot was in the works.

 

Right.

 

I love him like a brother but so far its easily Andrade.