That Marvin Hagler, when asked by the ring doctor whether he could still see after suffering the cut against Thomas Hearns, said "I'm hitting him, ain't I?" Bert Sugar loved repeating that one.
I’m capable of being swayed, buI’ve been thinking that some of these things are more scripture than science: -Archie Moore was a late bloomer who didn’t hit prime until his 30s More likely he just outlasted the better talents of the 40s. All at their best he didn’t separate himself from the Row the way Charles did. In fact he didn’t prove to be much more than middle of the pack. Still, I feel like a dick because it’s like I’m suggesting that longevity means nothing.
-Aaron Pryor was a flawed hype job who was always on the cusp of being knocked out LOL, how much more proven could his chin have been? He could be hurt, but nobody recovered quicker. His knockdowns were almost all down to just being caught off balance. A physically imposing power puncher could potentially be his undoing, or a brutal body puncher. But how many from 135-140 fit that criteria on top of having elite stamina and durability? I think he was a genuine paradox in the boxing ring during his brief but blazing run.
Biggs and Thomas were drug addicts leading into the Tyson fight. Cooney fought Spinks as a cash out fight (Cooney was favored). Canelo has robberies to his name. Ibeabuchi had ATG potential. Ruddock was shot for the Lewis fight. Mayweather was a cherry picker. (The only thing he cherry picked were the biggest purses.) Manny was shot for the Mayweather fight.
If he didn't take up crack smoking, it's likely that he would've moved to 147 and found out why defense matters.
Well, yeah, most likely. I’m not defending his potential at Welterweight. Just the ability he showed from 135-140. He wasn’t even a big 135. Certainly not a big 140. He wasn’t bigger than Arguello in their fights at all, though I believe I’ve said as much myself in the past, likely to make a point. DuJuan Johnson, a big time puncher and natural Welterweight, was clearly a full weight class bigger in the ring. He hit him with everything but the kitchen sink and Pryor never balked. He seemed to instantaneously shake off the ones that buzzed him and responded with less caution than before. Instead of gathering himself as others would need to, he went into a frenzy and blitzed him with two fisted kamikaze combinations until he broke him. Arguello was not a shell in their first match. Not peak or anything, but still a great fighter who carried his power up with damn near the same effect. He showed it clear as day against Rooney right before the Pryor fight. Probably the best one punch KO of his entire career. He was still a terminator. If you’re still unconvinced, watch him come off a two year retirement and soak up blows round after round from very recently dethroned Jr. Welterweight champ Billy Costello in an over the weight bout. Both guys roughly mid 140s. He was given little to no chance, and Costello was expected to capture his title back sooner rather than later. Then he landed his right hand in round 4 and the end followed soon after. He was one of the very best punchers ever. He just couldn’t deter the Hawk. At 135 I think you’d need a Duran or Chavez or Armstrong to break him down.
I think the 'worst' fighter I'd pick to beat him, is Manny Pacquiao. I would pick Pacquiao to thrash him and stop him in the first half, but that's a styles thing TBH, but I think it says something about his level. Especially considering I have quite a low opinion compared to others on here. Although my thoughts on Pryor's chin are pretty all over the place. I think it's good, I mean, it has to be to engage like that with Alexis Arguello. But he was definitely hurt vs Johnson, and he's said himself that both Arguello and Hinton hurt him. I think it's a good thing that he managed to come through both of those fights though. I tend to think he suffers from the same thing as Charles, Tito or Marquez. He's easy to put down but hard to stop.
Surprisingly, you are the first I've seen to question the myth that Clay was lucky to get the decision. It was a hard fought fight, but not razor close by any means.
Mine is probably that not only Liston but also Williams were ducked for years. Williams was not only never ducked but rather received a shot he didn’t really deserve on sporting merits. Liston was a bit unfortunate that the whole rematch carousel between Floyd and Ingo meant that everyone else was effectively frozen out for several years, but it wasn't until mid 1960 that he had established himself as the top contender, so even if not for the rematch clauses a shot before 1961 (or late 1960 at the earliest) wasn't really to be expected in any case.
Think so? I could have sworn there was more talk about that. I even had an old boxing magazine that that had an article suggesting a bad decision. Ah well.
Oh, yes there are those suggesting that it could/should have gone the other way. Definitely. But you are the first one I've seen to say that this is a myth, that it in actuality wasn't that close. And I fully agree with you.