When some people say "Ali is the p4p GOAT", what do you think?

I watched some p4p all time clips on YT, one of it by our Rummy´s Corner which is very well done!

Ali got 0 votes for being the p4p GOAT, but he won the HW GOAT but thats not a surprise.

Some ppl there wrote they dont understand why nobody gave Ali the Nr. 1 spot.

Your thoughts?
Is it legit to say Ali is p4p even greater then Robinson, Armstrong, Greb and Co, especially Robinson since he is mostly the Nr. 1 p4p all time?

For ppl who think so: Whats your point Ali is the p4p GOAT and not just the HW GOAT?

I always here "because in his prime he was never hit, never marked, even Robinson could not archive that".

First of all i say this is not true! He was hit by Liston a couple of times, Patterson also landed some shots in his face. And my fellow German Mildenberger hit him pretty good, but he had no punching power and his face was not marked by that.
So "never marked" or "untouchable" is not true. He was much better as in the 70s yes, i mean in avoiding punches, but some guys could connect with his face.


In my humble opinion its just UTTER NONSENSE to rank Ali as Nr. 1 of all time p4p, but you see some people do.
SRR really had no weakness at all. From a scale 0-10 in relation to frame (size, weight), he had simply no weakness, be it speed, power, chin, durability, etc., etc.
He would reach an 9 or 10 on all criterias.
But Ali would never reach a 9 or 10 in punching power. I would give him a 7 here, maybe a 8, but i say 7 is more realistic.
And ppl who vote him as Nr. 1 p4p ever say his punch power would be so underrated, since he stopped Liston, Foreman and Bonavena.
Foreman and Bonavena were tired and fatigued, and Liston just moved into his so called phantom punch. That can happen.
But never ever Ali could finish a Norton like Formean or Shavers did, not in his prime and not later.
His punching power WAS a weakness, there is nothing to debate to me.

 

Ali was the GOAT heavyweight, but Sugar Ray Robinson was a significantly greater fighter. I'd wager that back in the day, asking Ali personally he would have agreed. He admitted being heavily influenced in his fighting style by SRR, anyway.

It could be argued fighters like prime Roberto Duran and Henry Armstrong were greater than Ali as well. I'd have no counter argument for that.

Joe Louis isn't too far from Ali as an ATG heavy...no.

 

While I don’t I guess you could make an argument for it. I don’t even rank him 1 at HW (Joe Louis) so I can’t go 1 overall. I think 7-11 is where Ali/Louis slot in regardless of which one is higher. Just my $0.02

 

Laughable nonsense

 

good thread in for comments.

 

You can usually gauge how serious someone is, or how knowledgeable someone is about the sport with how they rate Ali, Mayweather, Tyson. That said, Ali has a genuine case for #1 at heavyweight but pound for pound #1 would either mean you really, REALLY love him and/or aren’t that clued up.

Now, Tyson and Mayweather GOAT people? Lol. I think the average poster here has forgotten more about boxing this morning than they know.

 

those same people probably couldnt name 3 weight classes.
many people also conflate Clay's political activism with his boxing legacy

 

Hard to compare considering how much more skilled the lower division fighters are

 

I respectfully accept your opinion but if Muhammad Ali had not been banned from boxing in 1967, we may have seen the best of him. The Ali that returned had too many dramatic fights, and gift decisions. I saw both versions, and true Ali was not a big hitter. I preferred the peak Ali from 1964-1967, there were potentially good fights on the horizon, against Thad Spencer, Joe Frazier, and Buster Mathis. He signed to meet Oscar Bonavena on May 27 1967 in Tokyo, Japan, but he was banned before that fight could ever happen. I really do enjoy your posts.

 

Love Ali, he is the greatest HEAVYWEIGHT in history.
But I can think of at least 10 fighters in the lighter
weights better and proved more than he did.

At heavyweight ,his physical ability, skill,
and level of competition is unmatched .
Especially the level of competition.

 

let's face it, being the GREATEST OF ALL TIME or thereabouts at heavyweight is a lot better than being "p4p nr 1", which is just a made up concept for guys who aren't big and bad enough to be great heavyweights.

 

Heavyweight GOAT would be a very easy position to defend.

Pound for pound goat would be somewhat harder.

There have been so many great fighters, from so many different weight classes, and so many different eras.

 

To be precise, I think Ali was the greatest pound-for-pound heavyweight of all time. I think there were several P4P lighter weight fighters who were better. I also think Ali would have had a tough time in head-to-head fights against some of the big heavyweights of the past 25 years or so.

 

It would be hard for Ali to be the best of all time with Robinson, Armstrong, Greb, Fitzsimmons, Langford, Gans, and others. Ali may be the best heavyweight of all time with your view on Ali vs Louis and legacy impact for the sport and all, but Pound for Pound has a lot of names he may have to overcome.

 

If I'm gonna make a p4p list I tend to leave Heavyweights out, not really fair when they're stuck with 1 division and others can climb to fight the best opponents they can. Wouldn't argue with it really though because most who think Ali is the greatest aren't the most well informed and are going on pure impact in the sport of which no one touches him