How good was Tokyo Douglas

Point very well put and taken my friend. Likewise!!

 

As good as he looked, Mike was as bad prepared for Tucker though as he was for Douglas. Like any fighter,Tyson was only as good as His opponent would let him be.

Douglas more than had his number. He knew what Tyson was going to do before he did it. So Tyson was never going to look good.

so far as preparation goes, Tyson won important fights just as bad.

 

If you can’t see the slide in Tyson’s technique when comparing the Tucker and Douglas fight, I don’t know what to tell you.

 

And yet Tyson still won more important fights that way....but he couldn’t against Douglas.

I agree that Tyson made “Douglas look twice as good as he was” in as much as Tyson could not stop a thing Douglas did to him.

 

Tyson was able to get the front foot positioning and dictate against Tucker. Tony was not dictating things at all. He was reacting to Tyson..which allowed Tyson to do more of what he wanted to where as Douglas was making Tyson react to him.

if Tyson had been able to dictate against Douglas, like he was able to do against Tucker, mike would have produced the same technique you enjoyed in the Tucker and Bruno fights because he was just as well prepared.

 

He would have always gave Tyson a hard fight over his unconventional assets and determination.

We've seen lots of perfect storm fights like this (Weaver vs Holmes) where the Champion still turns the tide and finds a way to win against an unexpected tough challenge. Tyson almost did it but just wasn't game enough and had an awful corner...his own fault.

Where does Tokyo Douglas rate? About as highly as any other non-great that put it all together for one night. He probably loses to the best prepared versions of other fighters but can upset the less prepared ones. But that's the heavyweight way.

 

Tyson had no footspeed and gave no angles against Douglas. I haven’t followed you closely enough to know what your agenda is, but Bruno Tyson was a lot closer to the guy who showed up for Douglas than the Tyson of the Tucker fight.

 

There is no agenda here. Watch the fight. Tyson gets confused in this fight which makes Douglas look better. Forget footspeed. A baffled fighter won’t find his feet.

Tyson showed up just as good as he was for Tucker. He looked fitter for Douglas.

Tyson was not particularly good against Tucker but he was never confused.

Tony Tucker was a good opponent that could operate at the right level but one concentrating on neutralising Tyson rather than dictating the action.

Tucker wasn’t taking the initiative or looking to dictate. He wasnt looking to prevent Tyson from trying to lead. To force him to make a mistake. Tucker fought hard enough Only to contain him. He wasn’t looking to take over.

Douglas had a plan to stop Tyson do what he wanted to do and he knew what that was.

Against Douglas Tysons condition is good. His heart is good. He was brave. Douglas just had his number.

Douglas was making Tyson hesitate. Mike wasn’t used to thinking for himself. Being confused hindered his foot speed. As a programmed fighter Tysons well drilled combinations came on instinct provided he got off first.

Here he is suckered with the feints.

Douglas is stunting that Tyson flow then working several moves ahead of him.

Being confused prevents Tyson even getting off. Never mind being first.

So here he was made to think. Which allowed the other guy to manipulate him.

Didn’t matter how fast his feet were going to be, Douglas would stunt and halt his efforts just by making Tyson think.

If the other guy already knows what you are going to do, he can make you do what he wants you to walk onto.

 

I’ll have to review those fights again some time but I completely agree that if you watch some of those late 80s fights carefully, the drop off in the Douglas fight isn’t nearly as drastic as people make it out to be. You can see some of the same bad habits and lapses developing.

 

Tyson was a young guy. A kid really. He was drilled over and over in the gym to respond and react instinctively to such an extent that he probably did not acquire the general concentration of a more mature thinking fighter. He bypassed a lot of the seasoning that usually make a great champion.

as you say there were always lapses of focus. Signs of frustration against even lesser fighters on the way up. Stuff that is forgotten after he wins a fight. The stunning finish can often overshadow the sequence of ineptitude within a clinch where he Is just standing there thinking what do do next.

His talent and knowledge was phenomenal...for a kid. And he was still just an adolescent really. It’s amazing Tyson held it together for as long as he did. I have to take my hat off to him..with the same opportunity, probably no other champion could have done so well so early.

 

I disagree. Douglas’ gameplan wasn’t especially different from most of Tyson’s title reign opponents and there was nothing special about him compared to most of the others who Tyson fought.

 

I don’t know about that. I didn’t see anyone else setting traps on Tyson so early in the fight in quite the way Douglas did.

He was able to beat up Thomas before he could get going. But from the second round onto the finish Tyson began to get frustrated Labouring with Thomas in a way a younger more seasoned fighter could have taken advantage of. Smith just grabbed him. Biggs had a good first round then ran out of puff. Tubbs turned up only to spar with Tyson. Larry too. Not many of those guys were actually equipped to take on a real champion who was as active as Mike was. Douglas fought on the same cards as Tyson..and against live opponents who were trying to beat him.

maybe if Biggs could have maintained what he did in the first round long enough to frustrate Tyson.he might have shown more of the kind of success Douglas was able to achieve... but he was just was not equipped for that. Biggs lacked the seasoning Douglas was developing beating Berbick, McCall and Williams. So he just puckered out.


against Douglas, Tyson started quite fast. Moving his head. But Douglas was able to time the head movement. Pop him. Push him back and make him pay. And he would turn up each round without the discouragement the others had who were mostly too rusty and intimidated to do themselves justice.

 

Biggs also lacked the power Douglas had. He held his hands too low.

Douglas was far better than Biggs. Better mover, much more power, more creative and far superior combination punching.

 

Thomas—better jab, tougher. Did a 70s Ali impersonation and failed. Ditto Holmes.

Bruno and Bonecrusher had better right hands. Bonecrusher was tougher. Both stronger.

Tucker had better legs and chin. Almost an equal jab.

Tubbs was out of shape but a more consistent winner than Douglas.

Tillis and Biggs both tried to Ali Tyson. Didn’t work.

Spinks had the same stuff as Douglas except size and we saw what happened.

 

While i agree that Tyson was not 100% vs Douglas, i would respectfully disagree

Spinks did not have the footspeed or power of Douglas at heavyweight. Spinks could not have lasted more than 3 rounds even vs the Tokyo version of Mike. Douglas had the uppercut and combination punching power to make Tyson hesitant to come in. Spinks had no power at heavwyweight to keep Tyson at a distance. I am a big Spinks fan at 175. But at heavyweight, he did not have a fraction of the power needed to stop Tyson.

Bonecrusher did not have an ounce of the footspeed Douglas did. And he fought to survive. He could not punch using fast combo's like Douglas.

Tucker had a better chin but less offensive ability than Douglas.

Biggs again did not have the offensive ability of Douglas. Biggs also held his hands down excessively. And he was a drug addict.

I agree best Tyson edges Tokyo Douglas but that Douglas would give him a better fight than any of his previous opponents.