Could Holyfield Take "Zaire '' Foreman?

This would have been really great...and might have been the way George won that fight. One of the biggest problems for him against Ali was his inexcusable lack of consistent jabbing...plus he seemed to completely forget how to spin and push his opponent into range in that fight. Had the George who kicked the yee-haw out of Frazier and Norton showed up and kept his cool Ali would have had to settle for a decision victory...but taken even more punishment to get there.


Being that George didn't really use his jab against Ali, that same George loses a UD to Holy, though Holy would probably take some serious punishment to get there. Probably a kd of Holy happens at some point. I'm talking the Holy who fought Bowe I.

 

Foreman KO’s or stops him late because Holyfield had the tendancy to get drawn into a dog fight and Foreman could take Holyfield’s power, but when Foreman lands that is it and he would land in a slug fest because Forman was good in slugfests, I see Holyfield landing more throughout the fight, but Foreman taking them and I think it’s inevitable that Foreman lands a big punch on Holyfield and knocking him out and with the extra speed that young Foreman had, he would certainly catch Holyfield more often therefore more chance of him winning, and let’s not forget, old Foreman had his moments against Holyfield and was able to land on him
You are all imagining Holyfield boxing Foreman, but Holyfield always got drawn into wars when he didn’t need to and it would be the same here, especially with Foreman going at Holyfield

 

Foreman in his 1st career had a couple weaknesses.
But Holyfield would be to much the "warrior " to take advantage of them. Holyfield would ingage Foreman in a fire fight he can't win.
Holyfield also didn't play on opponents mentality as Ali did. I would expect a much more focused version of Foreman than Ali faced, a calmer and deliberate version.
Foreman part 1 stops Holyfield brutality with in 10rds.

 

I like the 1974 version of George Foreman to stop Evander Holyfield. This edition of George was not the flabby religious grill selling fighter, but a rather mean spirited killer instinct champion who had hair. Holyfield did outlast a cruiserweight Dwight Muhammad Qwai in 1986, but against a 217 lbs finely conditioned Foreman , no chance. Evander would not be able to push around a fighter whose sole ambition was to overwhelm his opponent into oblivion, he may have done that to a past his peak Mike Tyson, but not in this one. George would have shoved Holyfield around, then would have connected with a powerful right hand, then connected with a whirlwind of blows forcing Evander to the ground. Holyfield would have survived the onslaught of round 1. But D. Sadler and Archie Moore would have implored Foreman to put Holyfield out of his misery. After an avalanche of blows, Holyfield falls to the canvas in round 2, looking up at the referee Zack Clayton, who tolls the full ten count over him. Remember this is not 1991, but October 30 1974. And George wants to emulate his boyhood hero, Charles Sonny Liston.

 

Absolutely not. Foreman Knocks him out

 

Holyfield of Tyson 1 had been Studying and been obsessed with his opponent for YEARS. To the point where Emanuel steward said that Holyfield was concentrating more on Tyson(who was in prison) than he was on Bowe for the rematch.

Tyson beats bralw happy 205lb Holyfield in 91 and

96 Holyfield beats Foreman, Tyson or any other pure puncher if he sets his mind to boxing a smart fight and not getting caught. He was Far more seasoned and his reflexes didn't really go to **** until after the Lewis fights, reflexes being the real mark of a shot fighter. Not PED related performance/heart issues like in Moorer or Bowe 3.

Look at the interviews that Holyfield has done in the last few years. He's said several times that he can't even compare Tysons power to other fighter's he fought because he made sure he didn't get caught CLEAN. He fought the perfect fight, sure at the time Holyfield looked shot but in hindsight that was his best performance and in BOXING TERMS his best version, next to the 93 bowe rematch version.

If Holyfield gets that kind of preparation for foreman then Holyfield probably takes it. Foreman has nothing to bring to the table except overwhelming physicality which worked against great but LIMITED Norton and Frazier but not against a VERSATILE and let's be honest roided out Holyfield who was physically strong enough to push back almost anyone he ever fought.
Holyfield pushed back Hasim Rahman who was freakishly strong. He made Tua quit and go home in sparring after a few sessions according to Don turner.

If Holyfield was limited to 1970s "sports technology" obviously it would be a different story because essential parts of the necessary game plan simply wouldn't be possible to execute with his 200lb max. Natural frame

 

What people don't realize is that Foreman was not a reckless wild boar who fought with anger. Ali reduced him to that.

"When we were kings" explains in detail why: Ali had played the ultimate psychological trick on him. Basically, Ali would always talk to the media about how slow George was, called him a mummy, and responded to a reporter asking if he could still dance by saying "is the pope a Catholic?".

So naturally, the Foreman camp made preparations with the assumption Ali would try to stick and move. Of course, this was all a trap. Ali did dance at first, but then he did the ultimate form of disrespect by hitting Foreman with his right hand lead in an orthodox stance. He was telling Foreman through body language "you're so slow i can hit you with my rear hand without even jabbing". This didn't hurt Foreman physically but it boiled him mentally. Foreman didn't snap after all the trash talk and insults. In fact, when Ali was at the stare down he tried to psyche Foreman out telling him he was a champion when Foreman was in high school and Foreman had to stop himself from laughing because he dropped out and was mugging people and getting into brawls.

But Ali calling him slow and then proving it in such a stylish and disrespectful way had to be one of the most humiliating things you could do to a champion. Especially a champion who everyone said would KO the loud mouth "washed up" old challenger within a few rounds. That's the reason the game plan went out the window. Foreman made sure to cut off the ring, but because he was so enraged he didn't notice his own stamina was rapidly depleting and he had fallen for Ali's 2nd trap. By then, it was like he was in quick sand. Ali was not going to get off the ropes and have to take 2-3 steps just to get away from the raging brute or he would be the one gasping for air.

My point in saying all that is that there is a misconception that whoever he fights, Foreman of Zaire would automatically come out swinging for the fences as soon as the bell rings when that wasn't the case at all. Like you said, Holyfield wasn't about psychological warfare and wouldn't be getting in Foreman's head to make him rage out, BUT, if Holy does instigate a brawl it could definitely play out that way.

The other difference is unlike Ali, Holyfield was no expert at fighting off the ropes, often fought back when hurt instead of clinching or covering up, and while quick did not have the hand or footspeed of Ali. Combine that with his lack of raw power and I see it as only a matter of time before Foreman either outslugs him and puts him on the canvas or chases him down and cracks through his defenses. Whatever strategy Holyfield tries, due to the clash of mentalities, it may end up swinging in Foreman's favor. He was no slippery defensive wizard like young or a true outside guy like Ali to wait for Foreman to tire or try to outpoint him. He was way too trigger happy to brawl and even if he composes himself and uses a game plan like the Tyson fight, may not be busy enough to convincingly win rounds.

 

Agreed, I thought I was the only one who noticed Foreman didn't really use his jab against Ali, the way he did against Norton and Frazier. I would definitely pick that version of Foreman over Holyfield.

 

This is it,,,no chance at all

 

I do think you are selling Foreman short.You could take Jimmy Young, who easily meets your quality standards & he & most everyone else would not have lasted that night.
Remember the ring was small, they asked Ali why he would fight Foreman in a "phone booth".
It was also a soft, slow ring. Ali quickly noticed he would have to take many more steps than Foreman to evade him-& would eventually have exhausted himself.
And he was surprised by Foreman's speed.

Ali had to absorb great punishment, he was briefly out on his feet.
I still doubt he would win if he did not get away with his frequent holding-& pulling down Foreman's neck. Who else could do all this, while successfully implementing a surprise strategy starting with lightning fast right leads?

This "hanging on" must have exhausted George well before he would have otherwise faded.
Even the lesser, '77 Foreman who was too gun shy to go all out almost sparked Young.

 

This.
'77 Foreman was in the process of having a psychotic break if what happened after the Young fight is true. His confidence after Zaire was clearly shaken.
The brawl with Lyle also didn't help though he won by ko, he was close to getting K'oed himself.
Than, the ridicule he received from the media and fans the night he fought five 3rd rate boxers on national TV backfired on him , that didn't help his psych.
The Young fight loss was simply the breaking point of a mentally broken man.
It took 10yrs and maturity to finally get himself right, get back in the ring, go on too shock the world and win back the championship after damn near 20yrs and in his mid 40's.
Redemption.

 

Me too. And after reading many of the posts after mine I have to agree that Foreman had a great chance of winning...but not the Foreman who fought in Zaire. The Foreman who was a master at positioning his opponents to his best advantage (the Norton and Frazier guy) would have got to Holy, and as a warrior Holy would have gotten very angry and vicious...only to be caught by the punch that ruined him. The guy who beat two of the greatest heavyweights who ever lived would stop Holy in 7 at the very latest.

The Zaire mummy who let himself get psyched out badly and ended up becoming a stumbling, bumbling dolt who punched himself out would get sorely decisioned by the Holy who fought Bowe in 1992. Probably both men would get knocked down if the fight went 15. In Zaire, Foreman would have let himself get just as bamboozled and gassed.

Just my opinion. Prime Holyfield is just ahead of Foreman (and FWIW, Lewis) on my ATGs list for a reason...he was a great fighter with more heart than practically anyone besides Frazier, Ali, and Holmes.

 

Really good post, if you remember in round 8 in the fight against Jimmy Young on March 17 1977 in San Juan. Puerto Rico, Young was badly stunned. But Jimmy chose to Rope A Dope, and George was trying to pull him off the ropes. I won $10.00 dollars that night. I based the bet on Young's performance against Ron Lyle.

 

Great! If George was as aggressive as he was in Zaire, he would have had Young out by the 8th at the latest.
With a small & slow ring like in Africa? Even sooner.
Merry Christmas to you & all!