Which trainer could have better developed a Gerry Cooney in his prime?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Richard M Murrieta, Dec 25, 2020.



  1. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Which trainer could have better developed a Gerry Cooney in his prime? Maybe a Cus D Amato, or perhaps an Eddie Futch or a Emmanuel Steward, let's hear your take. His management tried to use him as a human meal ticket to fight then champion Larry Holmes in 1982.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2020
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  2. Shrollleftupper

    Shrollleftupper Active Member banned Full Member

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    Peekaboo defense sucks unless you duck enough opponents, stay away from cus
     
  3. El Gallo Negro

    El Gallo Negro Active Member banned Full Member

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  4. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    A trainer that actually built his confidence instead of the opposite which is what his team did
     
  5. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  6. Titan1

    Titan1 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  7. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I know that Valle was a boxing trainer and pretty descent, but the truth be told, Gerry Cooney was a political cash cow for his management. No human being should ever be treated like that, it does not matter if it is the reality of boxing. To me that sounds like underworld involvement. Good management would have brought Gerry Cooney slowly among the ranks, culminating with matches against top contenders of that era, Tex Cobb, Greg Page, Tim Witherspoon, and Pinklon Thomas. Those contenders would have gotten him ready for a 1982 Larry Holmes.. But he would have needed a quality trainer, Cus D Amato, Emmanuel Steward, Eddie Futch, or maybe a Gil Clancy. But using another human being is deplorable. Cooney had the tools but he needed someone to cultivate his talents. Beating up old relics like Ron Lyle, Ken Norton, and Jimmy Young is not going to teach him anything. It is like cheating on a school exam, nothing learned.
     
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  8. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I am familiar with Willie Reddish, he was the trainer of one Charles Sonny Liston, but I also agree to disagree, I am not a rube when it comes to boxing, I have followed the sport since 1965. I do think that Reddish would have worked well with Gerry Cooney. I just think that making a fighter a human meal ticket is wrong, beating up elderly relics like Ron Lyle, Ken Norton, and Jimmy Young does not prove anything. I was not impressed. Take a look at a movie titled The Harder They Fall from 1956, it is about a fictional character that has set up fights, the meets the champion played by Max Baer Sr, Moreno gets totally dismantled, the underworld took all his money. Essentially Gerry's management prepared him for failure by not putting him in with fighters his own age that could test him. The sport is not all about money.
     
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  9. ron davis

    ron davis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Victor Vallee, was a great trainer, he knew more about boxing than trainers managed.
     
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  10. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No problem, I do agree my friend.
     
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  11. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    Manny Steward

    No one was going to turn a one handed fighter into an ATG. Lewis had two hands. Yes, Lewis's left hook (barring the Bruno fight) wasn't great but it was a good punch. His left jab was excellent and his right hand was sheer dynamite.

    Cooney, in contrast, had only his left. His right was largely non existent. There is only so much you can do with him.

    I do think Cooney's people should have put him in against other notable guys instead of fighting Holmes in 82. Cooney could have beaten Holmes in a 12 rounder in 84 or 85.

    However, a young Tyson would have ended Cooney's reign.

    Best case scenario: Cooney trained by Steward could win the title of an aging Holmes in 84 and hold onto it for a couple of years.
     
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  12. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King Full Member

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    In the 80's Dundee could have developed his jab and footwork. Cooney was brave but not very durable so that could have made him more well rounded and able to survive longer when hurt. Strange that such a tall fighter didn't always utilize his reach and often got into close range to dig to the body and throw hooks. The only problem with Dundee was his fighters didnt always sit down on their punches and rarely went to the body, which were 2 of Cooney's best traits. However, Dundee was very good at hyping and encouraging his fighters. That's something Cooney desperately needed as he was filled with doubt and a lack of confidence from his abusive dad and the way his management fed him shot old fighters didn't exactly help develop him. Psychology is very important in boxing and Dundee could have really helped in that regard even if he wasn't the best fit from a technical side of things.

    I completely disagree on Steward. He always turned taller guys into clinch spammers and outside bullies. Nothing wrong with that if your goal is to win, play to your strengths. But Cooney wasnt that kind of fighter at all. He lacked the uppercut and other tools to keep short guys from coming in, and such a style would have sacrificed his power and inside fighting ability.

    I think Futch is the best answer. Norton and Bowe could use their jab and box or they could mix it up at close range despite being 6'3+. Whatever methods he was using worked really well and made his fighters more balanced.
     
  13. FastLeft

    FastLeft Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Cooney problem his managers
    the trainer Victor Vallee. good as any trainer. did nothing wrong
    but the managers they only look to build Cooney up & get big "" title shot ' . not care to get activity & fights to develop properly as boxer. left him stay out of ring & avoid good fighter on way up.
     
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  14. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    Manny Steward possibly.
    Maybe, perhaps Cooney went as far as he was ever gonna go.
    But Steward might have improved him?
     
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  15. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Emmanuel Steward would have treated Cooney like a contender, encouraging him to fight current ranked contenders to get him ready to challenge Larry Holmes for the title, not some ancient ranked relics that he could beat blindfolded but someone who could challenge his hidden talent. Protecting a fighter to not lose or get injured is disabling him and making him co dependent. Don't protect him for just the almighty dollar, but prestige and self pride goes a long way.
     
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