any proof or evidence that Liston really put linoleum on his gloves?

This is about it IMO. I think a more innocent take was accepted when it got gutted some time back. There was a lot of good info.

 

Jerry Izenberg who was a respected writer said in an interview that a guy from Liston's corner (Joe Polino?) I'm not sure on the name but Jerry said this man told him about the effort to blind Clay. He had said they threw the bottle under the ring after they used it. Izenberg always seemed pretty solid. Not like a Bert Sugar looking for attention.
I don't know what motivation Polino would of had go tell a story like that. My own view is Sonny came in to Miami in awful condition. 3 round shape. His weight indicates this 218lbs. Thought he would crush the kid in a couple of rounds. When it didn't happen his corner tried to blind the kid.

 

Yeah it's well documented Sonny thought clay was a nutcase and an easy beat. He was certainly lightly prepared.

I've heard various stories about what went on, many of them contradicting. It's not beyond anyone to want their 5 minutes of fame. Like much about sonny we will never know for sure.

 

I have heard Dundee talk about it in interviews, and other fighters accused Liston of the same thing.

 

I believe he said it was at the very end of round 4 when the eye troubles started.

 

Something definitely got in Ali's eyes but I don't think it was from Liston's doing (at least intentionally). If I had to guess, I'd say it was from whatever was used to treat Liston's cut, and it got into Ali's eyes during a clinch.

 

"Angelo Dundee, Clay's legendary trainer, finally dismissed that theory. Dundee, 82, revealed: 'People said Liston put liniment on his gloves to blind Ali, but that was a crock."

Source: http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/liston-didnt-blind-ali-6987354.html

Only 1 fighter directly accused Liston of it on record; Eddie Machen. He was accused of the same thing, against Williams, and Valdez but they never mentioned it publicly, not once. Also, all of these accusations came AFTER Liston beat Ali, not before. Make of that what you will.[/QUOTE]

 

[/QUOTE]

And yet he also said that Ali believed it, so...

 

I guess you could say

If you, or anyone else, has a link I'd appreciate it. Always love a good account of boxing skullduggery.

 

This is not true. Ali was the first of Liston's opponents who accused him of intentionally using an illegal substance to blind him. Only AFTER this fight, did any other fighters (actually only one; Machen) accuse him of such a thing. Not a peep was heard about in the post-press conference or anywhere in the media immediately following the fight.

 

Source?

 

Exactly. Machen talked shyte at various times.

 

I've noticed people attempt to bring up Machen's claims of being blinded by Liston but conveniently leave out the fact that Machen had FOUR YEARS to say something that even remotely implicated Liston but didn't. Not once. Until 2 days after the Ali fight.

 

Yes this particular claim carries zero weight. Machen was just big noting and expanded to say he didn't let on to Liston, unlike clay because he was more of a seasoned pro. He said he thought his eyes would burn out of his head yet he didn't show Liston anything

 

No where on film does Machen display even the slightest sight trouble.