Prime Muhammad Ali vs Prime Evander Holyfield

Steroids have been around since 1935 and have been used by athletes for a long time...well before the 1960s. Nobody knows if Ali used them, but he had a doctor in his training camp who would have known about the benefits. Ali changed heavyweight boxing, he was bigger than his opponents, quicker and agile. There had been 6-3, 215 pound heavyweights before but most were slow and stiff. There was no testing in the 60s so an athlete could use as many PEDs as he wanted and didn't have to worry about a positive test. According to what I've read, Ali was not strict about his diet and drank a lot of Pepsi...he went from 178 pounds in the Olympics to about 210-15 and didn't gain any fat...Who knows if he used PEDs?

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publicati...drugs-apeds/what-history-anabolic-steroid-use

 

But judging from the size of today's heavyweights, it is certain that they are being used today. I think that the fictional movie Rocky 4 from 1985 did bring some awareness to those practices, especially in the communists countries. It is like the pro wrestler's of today, a lot of them use. In my era, people grew to normal size. I do not think it has to do with nutrition, but in the end like anything else, as the commercial goes, Pay Me now Or Pay Me Later. Very Good Post.

 

Guys Ali did not use weights or PEDs if you exclude painkillers for his hands in th early 70's which is what Ferdie gave him .. Ali trained far more like Joe Louis , old school .. his speed and greatly underrated strength were natural .. I love Evander but have little doubt he dabbled at the very least and had far more progressive training methods as did Lewis .. been rereading Lewis bio and he did serious weight training and who knows what else .. I have little doubt the Klitschkos played games too .. Vitali was banned as an amateur for drugs showing up in his blood .. on a level playing field Ali is one fighter from fifty years ago at a natural 6'3" tall, 80" reach, with blazing speed and huge natural strength , incredible heart , chin and ring intelligence that matches up well w any of them .. Holmes too ..

 

I really like your truthful post. Fantastic.

 

yes....against Holmes
sssshhhhhhh....dont tell anyone on here their heads will explode

 

they weren't even testing for PEDs on Clay's time...how can you sit up there on your high horse and lecture us about his virtues when they never even tested him? and it's a known fact he used weight cutting diaretics to fight Larry Holmes, a very substance fighters today ate suspended for

 

Same with Jarrell Miller

 

how so?
I answered the thread and gave an objective fight break down taking into account both fighters strengths. I also cited examples from other fights they both had to illustrate my point. going through most of the blow hard responses on this thread, few others provided breakdowns such as mines. sorry if I do not grovel about on my hands and knees like the rest of you engaging in blind hero worship and trying to one up each other seeing who can carry Clay's jockstrap the longest.

 

I know it’s fun to think Ali was this boxing saint that could do no wrong but that simply isn’t reality. Being a top dog in arguably the most corrupt sport in the world means that your probably gonna be sucked into doing some shady things. I bet you also think the Liston rematch was legit

 

I disagree. I think if you compare Holyfield from the beginning of his career, to the beginning of his decline (Moorer 1) and Ali from the beginning of his career to the beginning of his decline (Quarry 1) a case could be made for Holyfield having a better chin than Ali.

In the time frames mentioned, both men were down twice.

Holyfield against Cooper and Bowe.

Ali against Banks and Cooper.

Ali was dropped by single shots in fights where he had not taken too much damage.

Holyfield needed to be hit by multiple shots to go down against Bowe, who he'd gone to war with for 10 rounds, and Cooper and even then he never actually touched the canvas against Cooper.

Along with that, Holyfield was a brawler at heart. He fought more aggressively than Ali, had worse defense and was also usually going up against bigger men

 

Yes, I know what you mean. Quite an unpleasant undertone with this guy. In my pet peeves, I list people who come on here just to provoke. Utterly pointless.

Anyway, on a brighter note, there are various others, notably the Aussie contingent such as yourself and @JC40 and @Clinton who hails from my family's homeland (Ireland - my real name is Eddie O'Ezzard) and many others who make it a good place to shoot the breeze. My boy will be heading down to Oz next year - if the madness lifts - so he's memorising the events of your match vs India the other day so he can make some friends at the bars.

Happy new year, mate. I always enjoy your posts. I'm loving the Tony Baltazar thread; I remember reading that interview with Buddy McGirt so I'm going to have a look at Tony in the next few days. Keep safe, keep posting and keep the faith (Northern Soul motto - my other love). Best wishes for a better '21.

 

I don't think athletes in the 1960s would have even been aware of the existence of PEDs. They don't seem to have entered into widespread use until the mid 1970s.

Ali's prime was circa 1965 to 1974. During that time he was down once. Don't see how the Banks knockdown is significant.

 

Happy new year to you as well, @Richard M Murrieta - one of the posters I should have listed as a reason to spend time here. Knowledgable and courteous to boot. Keep safe, keep sane and keep posting.

 

I also enjoy both of your posts, but whatever the reasons are, we are always bound to meet unpleasant people like a certain poster that seems like a hateful individual. Maybe he dislikes Muhammad Ali for refusing to be a Yes Man for a worthless war escalated by a warmongering President that wasted human life for his entertainment. Like I said, Muhammad Ali had courage not to carry the jockstrap of that president. I would just ignore that hateful individual.

 

Happy New Year my friend, like I have always said, you are a great poster, you are very knowledgeable as well, a poster with class. Be safe as well. Keep posting as well.