How "Past It '' Was Sonny Liston Defending Against Ali?

I think the inactivity might have effected him as well. Think he had only seen maybe 1 round of boxing in two years going into the clay fight

 

Maybe, he looks closer to 40 than 32 in the first fight to me.

32 at least is pretty old for those days anyway, by the way.

 

Tyson Fury looks closer to 40 than 32, also.

Nathan Gorman looks closer to 40 than 32. He's supposedly 24. (LOL)

People hear Liston may be older than he was listed, and they start throwing out wild numbers based on nothing more than what he looked like. The discrepency in his age, looking at census numbers, was always a year, as far as I recall. Maybe two. It wasn't 10 or 20 years, like people throw around.

 

I think the Patterson rematch is the one where he looks his very sharpest, so it's hard to believe that he was past it seven months later. But there seem to be better reason to believe that his preparation was a bit lax, though,

As for the injury, yes, there is reason to believe in that given the medical statement, but one of his cornermen later said that it was BS cooked up on the spot and I personally can't really sa any sign of "debilitating injury", as the doctors called it, in the footage (but neither can I of Vitaly vs Byrd, tbf) and Liston did have verified mob connections, so it's for that reason also less of a stretch than usual to believe it was a sham, I'd say.

Unfortunately, the ending in both those fights will always be a mystery.

 

I think sonny still would have beaten most or even all of the top contenders in 1964 minus Ali of course. Liston continued to be a force in the division for years even after losing the crown.

 

You're changing the question. You asked if he would've quit against anyone else at that time (February 1964). The answer is no, IMO. I don't see any other contenders who would've made him quit.

Would he still be the champ FOUR years later? Who knows. Four years is a long time. Maybe Frazier beats him. Maybe Bonavena roughs him up. Maybe Jimmy Ellis cuts him or wins a close decision. Who knows. They weren't rated in the top 10 in February 1964.

 

I think he wasn't at the top of his game, but as much from inactivity than age. A combination of both really. He hadn't fought a full round in three years. When you reach 30 years of age or so, it is especially important to stay busy to be sharp.

I wrote something very similar before going back to read the entire thread, but I canceled it out when I read your post.

 

Meh. A lot of guys today fight twice a year, some once, and stay sharp.

It’s Sonny’s job to be in shape when he fights. I don’t think he looked out of shape against Ali.

Just outclassed.

 

Right. And not getting in shape doesn't mean you're past your prime. It means you didn't get in shape, due to arrogance or whatever. Ali was as big of an underdog as Braddock against Baer. Liston fought well against Ali in their first fight. He just got overwhelmed by a better fighter.

 

I agree he would have been outclassed even at his absolute best. And I believe he was in good physical shape. But I also believe he was rusty and had not faced any meaningful action in three years, which is a lot different than having a tough fight once or twice a year. I think he was just not mentally ready to do or die against Cassius Clay in 1964. It was more of a mental thing than a physical thing. You might make fun of this, but I think he had forgotten how tough a fight could be. He'd been away from real competition for too long.

 

Those fighters don't have any discrepancies around their age, or any reason to believe their age is incorrect...

 

Right. My point is, the discrepencies around LIston's age (for people who have actually researched it) were whether he was born in 1930 or 32 (or possibly 31). Not 1914.

But people still chime in with "he looked at least 40, and I heard he was possibly 50."

 

Yes sir!!!

This content is protected