First of all, greetings to all boxing fans . I`m a new member here, longtime boxing fan and this is my first message in that forum. English is not my mother tongue, so I apologise in advance, if there are some mistakes or odd phrases. However, maybe I can improve my English-knowledge by writing texts. But now to the topic itself. Sonny Liston is for me something like the first archetype of a modern super heavyweight boxer. Of course, there were strong and bigger previous fighters, like Jess Willard, Primo Carnera, or Buddy Baer... But I mean boxers, which were really able to use their physical advantages, like Sonny Liston his phenomenal reach, through his powerful jab. By the way, I`m not sure if his reach was really 84``, cause in his last fight against Leotis Martin, his reach was indicated with 80.5``. So it seems to be debatable. Anyway it´s still an enormous reach. In his prime 59/60, he was widely regarded as almost invincible (also in the following years). He has beaten top contenders like Cleveland Williams, Zora Folley and Eddie Machen apparantly with ease. Okay, Machen gave him some difficulties, cause he was running away. In an interview between rummy`s corner and Emanuel Steward, Steward said, that prime Liston might have beaten even Ali. He said Listons strength began to decrease after he became heavyweight worldchampion, cause he started to have an comfortable life, to much alcohol etc. On the other hand, some other boxing fans think, that he is a bit overrated. So, what do you think, which of his great boxing predecessors would you favour to beat him head to head, or which would have at least a decent chance for an upset ? Boxer punchers like Joe Louis (which I would personally pick, especially in combination with Jack Blackburn and a well prepared fighting strategy), or Jersey Joe Walcott. Great punchers like Rocky Marciano or Jack Dempsey. Boxers like Gene Tunney, Billy Conn, Jimmy Bivins or Ezzard Charles. Good, but more unknown fighters like Elmer Ray. Slick fighters like Harry Wills, or maybe the really old ones like Jack Johnson, Sam Langford, Sam McVey, Joe Jeanette or James Jeffries....
Hey man. Welcome. Your English writing is excellent. Better than some on here. Yes I think sonny beats most before him. He could really fight and was one of the first fighters who could box and was a natural big guy. I think an on dorm Joe louis beats him. And I think rocky marciano and Jack Dempsey are a 50/50 clash with liston. I think they were greater fighters but the punch power and size of Liston keeps him in there. Most of the other fighters from 30s ,40s and 50s he would beat though in my opinion
In my opinion, Liston at his best vs all that came before him at his best; I think Louis Dempsey and Rocky have the best chance at beating him, the three of them feared no man, Liston had a “bully” mentality and i honestly believe that if those three gentlemen made it out of the opening rounds they could get Sonny, Tunney I’d give 50/50 only because yes he had the ability to out run Liston but could he run the whole fight? Doubt it, but it’s possible, Jeffries and Johnson I’d give 1 outta 5. depending on the length of the fight, I don’t know if Liston could put Jeffries away before his superior conditioning kicked in, and Johnson’s unorthodox defense could upset Liston early but Liston most likely beats them both. I honestly can’t see Sullivan, Corbett, Fitz, Willard, Schmeling, Sharkey, Carnara, Bear, Braddock, Walcott, Charles, Patterson or ingo beating Liston other than a lucky punch
As far as champs go, he beats far more than he loses to. I think he loses to Marciano, Dempsey, Louis, Tunney, Charles, and maybe Johnson. I'm Pretty confident he beats Jeffries and the guys before him, Carnera, Baer, Willard, and obviously he beat Patterson. Also he smashes both Marvin Hart and Tommy Burns. The guys I mentioned that he loses to are by a varying margin. Some closer than others and he has a good chance at beating any of them. He has the hardest time with Tunney and Charles in my opinion.
I've always found Liston vs. Johnson a terrific ponderer. I'd lean toward Jack's taking over late to win, but...goddamn, ten inches of reach is a lot to give up to a guy with a consensus top 5 all time jab in the division.
Great post, and welcome to the forum! Louis would be an interesting matchup; I'd make Liston a heavy favorite against any of his other predecessors.
People picking Marciano and Dempsey over him is just pure nostalgia. They were 20 pounds lighter and stylistically a good match up for Sonny
Welcome to the forum! Louis is a pick em for me and I think he beats the rest. Guys like Charles, Walcott and Tunney might give him some stylistic trouble but I don't see any of them beating him.
Agreed, I see Marciano getting blasted out coming to Liston. Dempsey? I think it'd be like Sonny's fight with Cleveland Williams, short and violent with Dempsey shellacking Liston with some good shots before Jack gets stopped.
I think Dempsey puts up a much better fight than Marciano ever would, but the end result is the same with either fighter.
I'd pick Louis over him, much faster puncher. I can see some slick fighters like Tunney or Charles giving him problems, maybe even winning a close decision. Schmeling would be interesting, but Listom might be a bit too powerful for him. Jack Johnson and Walcott are underdogs, but they have such a unique styles that maybe they'd confuse Liston (who wasn't great at adjusting in fight) and beat him by close decision. Jeffries could overwhelm Liston, but I'm worried that Sonny's jab would be too good for him. He'd beat the rest comfortably, unless I'm forgetting someone.
