Would Bowe have battered Witherspoon?

I'm going to disagree on these. I don't think Holyfield was that shaky or beatable around that time. I think Bowe was a very very good fighter whose style and size matched up well with Evander. I don't think Bowe doing that well is a reflection on Holyfield being poorly no matter how he was perceived. I also don't think he was more dependable from Tyson forward.

I mean look at it. Pre Tyson he won seven heavyweight bouts in a row against average to decent opposition and then won the title off Douglas. He then made 3 successful defenses against against Foreman, Cooper and Holmes. That's a very good run right there.

After this he runs into Bowe being beaten first up, then beating Stewart then beating Bowe before losing to Moorer, beating Mercer then losing to Bowe. That's a decent run given Bowe could fight and whom Futch had HUGE wraps on. There's a fair chance the ROIDS caugt him up for a while there but that's his problem of course.

Post Tyson he beat a Moorer who had been slept by Foreman then Vaughn then we had the two Lewis fights before he started splitting fights with Ruiz.

Many of them had their struggles across defenses and running into peak Bowe wouldn't have helped a lot of careers either.

Holyfield didn't suddenly become a notably better fighter after all these wars.

 

That’s fair enough. I see your point. I’m still going to mention that Foreman, Holmes and Cooper were not seen as the prestigious wins they now seem ..at that time. Because there were more deserving challengers seen as a threat to the title.

The respect for comebacking grandfathers came because of this or after this. Holyfield legitimised what was then seen as a circus act or gimmick.

Ruddock, Tyson, Lewis, Tucker and Bowe were knocking around then and Foreman and Holmes got their shot at Evander in spite of them looking more like the future of the division. Admittedly Tyson went to prison and Cooper was a replacement.

But I fully accept the merits of Evander overcoming this, beating Stewart, Mercer, Bowe and Moorer in rematches as well as Tyson. It was a bit up and down but he got there in the end.

I often wonder why Bowe did not fight as many of Holyfields better opponents?

maybe Bowe might have struggled more with Douglas, Mercer, Moorer, Stewart, Lewis, Holmes and Foreman than Evander did?

There’s no getting away from it, Holyfield and Lewis had much better resumes than Bowe.

 

Excellent points. Bowe ended up being a top 15 ATG, while for me only Holmes, Ali, and Louis were greater than Holy.

 

To me Page just wasn't good enough to beat Holy. Page to me was like Thomas, Witherspoon, Weaver, Berbick, Dokes...they all had talent, but simply didn't seem to have any real consistency. They would do something impressive, then suck. Just my opinion, no offense to fans.

 

Holyfield at his best would beat him decisively, but the unmotivated and unready version who fought Moorer the first would probably struggle

 

Lewis and Foreman were both greater than Holy too IMO.

 

I have to agree with this. Lewis got the better of Holyfield after all.

But Holyfield Is top ten too.

 

Bowe fought inside mark because he was a very good inside fighter for his size. It’s a hard fight for both an I agree with the rest what you wrote

 

Size outdone him with Lewis in general for me, just a much bigger man. Holyfield is way more complete than both and he has the toughness to ride rocky patches with foreman. P4p Holys better imo

 

Bowe may have just been a bad stylistic matchup for Holyfield.

But in terms of overall ability, it's not apparent he is levels beyond Witherspoon. Bowe was battered twice by Golota when seemingly close to his prime and had considerable trouble with Tony Tubbs. You didn't have to be a great heavyweight to cause him problems.

Maybe his work rate was the biggest problem foe Holyfield since he was able to outpunch Holyfield in their fights.

 

Bowe was a way more complete fighter than Witherspoon and beating a prime undefeated Holyfield tops ANYTHING Spoon did over his entire career.

That is the thing with Holyfield, on one end he is the greatest dragon slayer that has ever existed by beating a washed up Tyson twice but as soon as he is matched with other fighters he is "beatable" or he just met a bad "stylistic" match up.......

The truth is that Holyfields entire rep is made out of beaten the washed up Tyson..........who was in the joint for close to 4 years and fought barely a handful of rounds until he met Holyfield.....................idiots still claim that Tyson was "prime" or extremely close to it while in reality he was done as a fighter because the desire was gone, boxing is 80% mental, 20% physical.

Holyfiled was always up and down, struggled with ham and eggers, went the distance with Grandpas etc etc........PED abuse most likely caused those up and downs. Take the Tyson fights away and he is 2-5 against the best he met.........to add insult to injury he lost to a glass chinned Light Heavy who in his VERY next fight was stopped by a Fossil.........I actually had Holyfiled winning the first Moorer fight but the judges did not agree with me.

Past prime he could never get the fraud Ruiz under control who got beat by TWO ex Middle weights......

Back to Bowe, he W O N both Golata fights despite being washed up and refused to stay down and ultimately made the Mental Midget quit.....while poor Witherspoon claimed mistreatment from King as a excuse while he laid down from Smith.

Best vs Best Bowe stops Witherspoon.

 

Absolutely.

 

I rank Holyfield above Bowe, still. Riddick came along at exactly the right time, 25 yrs old, to face a 30 yr old smaller guy that had been through numerous ring wars already. Bowe had the chin, then, because Holyfield definitely laid it on him.. blinding crosses. 3 yrs later, Bowe's chin was a little more touched.

And Holyfield was going to KO Bowe in the rematch.. until fan man.

Bowe > Witherspoon

 

Cooper isn't seen as a prestigious win in any way shape or form. I've never seen anyone heap praise on Vander for beating him.

Holmes and Foreman aren't seen as overly great wins either to be frank.

As said Holyfield was following Tyson and people were used to vicious explosive knockouts. Tyson is in the running for the most exciting fighter ever. He also was very dominant in his time. It's hard to follow this particularly as Tyson had already destroyed Holmes.

Foreman was 3-1, Holmes 6-1. Foreman gained a great deal of respect for his effort.

Well Foreman legitimised Foreman via a decent effort against Evander. Holyfield didn't legitimise Holmes at all, he had already legitmised himself by beating Mercer if you remember. This was why he got a shot.

Well Bowe certainly got his shot. Tucker was fighting nobodies. Ruddock was in the process of going 0-2 against Tyson. Lewis was not yet at the title level before he later smoked Ruddock. There's no real mystery there.

Well he loved a good brawl and was fighting big men. He certainly got there. Bowe is rated very highly around this time. You can see the man had plenty about him. As i said Holyfield didn't suddenly become a much better fighter after all these wars as he aged,

Well it's a fair question. Apart from Holyfield we don't have much to go on when talking top caliber opponents. There's a chance he may have went better too. The guy had no longevity tho, unlike Holyfield. Holyfield was a warrior. Bowe also lacked Holyfield's commitment and could come into bouts in average shape.

Absolutely, zero argument there. Better resumes and much much better longevity.

 

But they do add to the resume...especially since Foreman was able to beat the man who took Evanders title.

Yes. Foreman really made a statement there. But at the time, it did not seem to enhance Holyfields prospects as a becoming a great champion yet, though in hindsight, a battle like that must have been a vital learning curve.

Agreed. Beating Mercer legitimatised Holmes as a real contender but it might also have exposed Mercer somewhat. As you say it did not help Holmes in the odds against Evander did it?

which is why I think @Cojimar 1946 makes a good point about it not being apparent that Bowe was levels beyond Witherspoon.