Jack Dempsey vs. Jack Sharkey

I agree that Dempsey's punch was useless and so was Sharkey's. I mention them only because you implied that Sharkey was the main offender when it was Dempsey who initiated the exchange and Sharkey was merely holding his ground and defending himself.

 

People are probably annoyed with you because you’ve made such a point to drive in that Dempsey punched with low blows (that really don’t look lower than the belly button) and even going so far as to make a video asking if Dempsey was the dirtiest heavyweight champ. All while writing a pretty biased 1000 page book praising Harry Greb, a very dirty fighter and arguably dirtier than Dempsey in his own right. Hypocritical.

 

Yeah, I mean why wouldnt you jump onto a post expressly about Jack Dempsey to come here and attack me while mentioning your one true love Cleveland Williams? Troll.

 

Yeah, like I said, the truth hurts. At least you mentioned the fact that I put together an actual video which shows the DOZENS of times Dempsey resorted to dirty tactics to illustrate that he was a dirty fighter. Go ahead and show me where I was biased in my Greb book and where I neglected to mention when he was accused of being dirty. Ill be waiting here. Yeah I didnt think so. Because my book was written expressly in a way that idiots like you couldnt come back here and say bull**** about it because I used EVERY available source, gave voice to contrasting opinions, and cited them all. Youve never read a boxing book like mine and likely never will again (if youve read it at all) but by all means, continue to believe the bull**** youve read in Ring magazine about both Dempsey and Greb and leave the actual history to actual historians while novice hobbyists like William post asinine recaps of fights that he clearly doesnt know what hes watching and has to come back and tell us everything hes missed AFTER hes posted these "authoritative" recaps. "Dempsey-Tunney 1 was close and competitive" "Dempsey-Sharkey was even going into the last round after Sharkey fouled Dempsey, was dropped in his corner, and there were no fouls by Dempsey anywhere in sight." LOL Ray Charles could give a better recap of those fights. And since William is clearly a wet behind the ears child who doesnt know his ass from his elbow Ray Charles was a BLIND singer who died before he was born... just for a little context.

 

On the facts of the fight, re-watching it frame by frame.

In the early part of round seven I did not see Dempsey hit Sharkey with any low blows until the last series.

In the last series, which is at 9:46 on the colorized version, Dempsey hits Sharkey with three rights to the lower body. The referee is circling behind but looks to be in position to see the last punch. The first two rights are on the trunks, below the belt but above the groin. The third is lower and looks to be a blow to the groin. Sharkey does not react to the first two but shows a flash expression of pain at the third and turns to the referee at 9:47. The referee starts moving in and reaching out, apparently for Dempsey, with his mouth open. Is he saying "break" or "stop"? That would be logical. Sharkey turns forward at 9:48. His hands have dropped, probably in instinctive reaction to the pain. He is no longer trying to hold onto Dempsey's left. The referee appears to grab Dempsey's right arm. Dempsey unloads the left hook on the wide open Sharkey with the referee actually hanging onto his right arm. All this happens at 9:48 on the film. At 9:49 Sharkey goes down and sprawls out face first. At 9:51, within two seconds of hitting the floor his right hand has moved to his groin. I have to conclude this was an instinctive reaction to pain. It happens too quickly to buy it was an act.

So my conclusions:

Dempsey hit Sharkey low.
Dempsey hit Sharkey on the break.

Dempsey did what a good dirty fighter should do. When he hit low he took advantage of the instinctive reaction of dropping the hands toward the groin to go for the chin. He was losing so it was worth taking the risk and he pulled it off. With this much potential money at stake, it would have taken a really courageous referee to DQ him.

I think Dempsey is generally overrated, but he rose to the occasion in this fight to do what was needed for the win.

 

I read about a quarter of your post lol full of yourself much? I guess being humble went completely out the window for you buddy. You’ve pretty much confessed that you’re utterly biased in your book, anyone that wants to go through all 700 or so pages will realize within the first chapter or two how deluded you are. Harry Greb is top 2 p4p all time imo but you hype up such insignificant fighters that it’s nauseating at times.

My point was that you have an obvious distaste for Dempsey and went out of your way to make a video but don’t go out of your way to get it out there that Greb was a dirty fighter.

 

I don’t think that’s what went through Dempsey’s head at all. You said yourself that this all happened within a matter of 1 or 2 seconds.

When Sharkey turned his head to the ref, Dempsey firmly had his head in Sharkeys chest with his eyes down. Effectively Dempsey’s back was almost entirely to the ref up until when the ref decided to reach in. Even then the referee was certainly out of Dempsey’s eyesight and therefore out of mind. Dempsey fired off his left hook before he could register that the referee had even touched him but had recognized his opponent was ripe for the taking. Again, this all happened within a second or 2 at most.

Dempsey didn’t do what any dirty fighter would do, he did what any fighter with an instinct for knockouts would do period. Your post gives off the impression that Dempsey was pulled off of Sharkey and had seen the ref or that even the referee was between them and that Dempsey had hit Sharkey with an ultra cheap shot. The left hook was perfectly fair and Sharkey shouldn’t have dropped his hands. That’s his fault. Fighters get hit and they get hurt. If you’re going to visibly show you’re in pain every time then boxing isn’t for you.

 

That was a good thread, answered my question well. Someone even eluded to the idea that before official protectors were developed, fighters tucked pieces of cloth or towels down there for protection. Guess my baseball glove innovation was along the same vein of thinking.

Thanks for the link.

 

"If you're going to visibly show you're in pain every time boxing isn't for you."

I don't think Sharkey visibly showed he was in pain until he was hit in the groin. Saying boxing wasn't for Sharkey is odd as he was a top contender for years and later champion.

"Sharkey shouldn't have dropped his hands."

I agree, but as you point out, this is all happening within a second or so. The hands dropping is an instinctive reaction to pain in the groin. That is why low blows are fouls. Even the toughest boxer can't take that, which is why it is a winning tactic if you can get away with it.

"The left hook was perfectly fair."

What did the referee say? I don't know but logically it was probably "break"? The referee was not out of his ear range. The fact is Dempsey hit Sharkey while the referee was trying to restrain him. Was that fair? I think it a moot point. Everything is fair in the ring if the referee allows it.

 

Your history speaks for itself. So fun to see how easily your buttons are pushed when being called out .. when's the Wills book coming out ?

 

I was exaggerating to get my point across. Sharkey shouldn't have showed he was in pain. Even just once. What happened to him is exactly why you don't.

But what about pain from broken ribs, a busted nose, or a punch to the liver? I'm sure every one of Dempsey's punches (most any boxer for that matter) hurt but the boxer has to stay composed. I agree low blows suck, are fouls, shouldn't happen but things were a bit different back then and Sharkey gave more than his fair share of low blows as well throughout his career.

I have no idea what the referee said and it really isn't worthwhile for us to dwell on what the referee said without hearing it. You have to remember there was a crowd of 82,000 cheering fans. I wouldn't be surprised if Dempsey couldn't hear the referee until he was right on him. That combined with being concentrated on a fighter right in front of him on the inside.

 

Clearly thew truth hurts .. just an angry guy .. fun though ..