Thoughts on this top 5 @ 160

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by UltimateDestroyer, Jan 30, 2021.


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  1. UltimateDestroyer

    UltimateDestroyer Member Full Member

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    Fine, head to head list it is. It's Jones.
    I can see Hagler beating everyone else on the list on his best night, I can see Jones beating Robinson and maybe Monzon and Hagler if he has an off night.
    I wouldn't pick Hopkins against any of them, just as I probably wouldn't pick him against any great middleweight.
     
    UltimateDestroyer, Jan 30, 2021
    UltimateDestroyer, Jan 30, 2021
    #61
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  2. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    fair enough!
     
    PhillyPhan69, Jan 30, 2021
    PhillyPhan69, Jan 30, 2021
    #62
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  3. UltimateDestroyer

    UltimateDestroyer Member Full Member

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    Oscar and Trinidad were not Duran.
     
    UltimateDestroyer, Jan 30, 2021
    UltimateDestroyer, Jan 30, 2021
    #63
  4. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You named Duran as some great contender. Barkley was Duran's only win at 160. He had lost to Sims previously. And before Hagler he lost to to Benitez but also Laing and the year after he was crushed by Hearns. He was a great, great fighter, but not a great MW by any stretch. So why keep brining up that Tito and Oscar weren't MWs and at the same time bring up Duran as a great win for Hagler?

    Both definitely had stronger recent credentials going into the fight than Duran ahd against Hagler, and both got KO'd while Duran lasted the full 15. And Hopkins was 39 when he stopped Oscar, at a catchweight.

    That Vito became champion might just be an indication that the division wasn't all that, and Roldan was also a fairly unrefined brawler. If he hadn't been on the resume of popular fighters as Hagler, Hearns and Nunn, I doubt that he would have been remembered more than Echols.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2021
    Bokaj, Jan 30, 2021
    Bokaj, Jan 30, 2021
    #64
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  5. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No, they were better fighters above WW, if that's what you're getting at.
     
    Bokaj, Jan 30, 2021
    Bokaj, Jan 30, 2021
    #65
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  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Duran never fought Sibson.
     
    mcvey, Jan 30, 2021
    mcvey, Jan 30, 2021
    #66
  7. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Sims. My bad.
     
    Bokaj, Jan 30, 2021
    Bokaj, Jan 30, 2021
    #67
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Want to look at the middleweights that beat Burley?
    Holman Williams
    Bivins to who he conceded 7lbs
    Charles to whom he conceded 9lbs and 6.25lbs
    Marshall to whom he conceded5.5lbs and6,25lbs

    Moore beat
    Chase
    The Hogue Bros
    Henneberry
    Richards
    Romero
     
    mcvey, Jan 30, 2021
    mcvey, Jan 30, 2021
    #68
  9. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Hopkins would beat Hagler's entire lot.
     
    JohnThomas1, Jan 30, 2021
    JohnThomas1, Jan 30, 2021
    #69
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  10. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    I'm hearing you Boje, i'm hearing you. Hopkins is one of those fighters that gets hated/disliked on by a lot of people to the point they can't appreciate or maintain balance. We all know thew drill. SRL, Hopkins, Lewis, Duran/Jones to a lesser extent, Tyson and many others that shall not be named. These guys bring out mixed vibes for various reasons. One things for sure however - they are GREAT fighters.
     
    JohnThomas1, Jan 30, 2021
    JohnThomas1, Jan 30, 2021
    #70
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  11. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Bivins outweighed him, but was only on his third pro fight. Charles wasn't that green, but it was early in his career. Burley also lost yo Lytell.

    Why do you think Burley was a greater MW than contemproraries like Williams and LaMotta?
     
    Bokaj, Jan 31, 2021
    Bokaj, Jan 31, 2021
    #71
  12. UltimateDestroyer

    UltimateDestroyer Member Full Member

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    We wouldn't know, Pavlik is the best middleweight he beat. That's Hopkins level.
     
    UltimateDestroyer, Jan 31, 2021
    UltimateDestroyer, Jan 31, 2021
    #72
  13. UltimateDestroyer

    UltimateDestroyer Member Full Member

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    They still weren't middleweights, Hopkins gets far too much credit for beatinf them. Understand I'm not saying Hopkins is awful, far from it. I just see him as falling short against the only great middle he faced. Duran is a legend, unless your name is Tommy Hearns you need to respect him.
     
    UltimateDestroyer, Jan 31, 2021
    UltimateDestroyer, Jan 31, 2021
    #73
  14. UltimateDestroyer

    UltimateDestroyer Member Full Member

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    Vito especially was pretty underrated, same as Minter and Roldan and Obel. These are all good, proper Middleweights who could have reigned if not for Hagler.
    Dont make it seem like I fixated on Duran, I didn't, he's just another good win for Hagler. And Duran only beat Barkley but was extremely competitive with Sims and Hagler.

    Trinidad only beat Joppy, Duran only beat Barkley, yet Hagler beating Duran by decision not by KO is almost seen as embarrassing, Hopkins beating Tito is his career defining fight and what makes him great...eh?
     
    UltimateDestroyer, Jan 31, 2021
    UltimateDestroyer, Jan 31, 2021
    #74
  15. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yes, Duran is a legend but wasn't a great MW. Easy as that.

    Tito and DLH were probably both better MWs, even though their time there was too brief to say for absolutely sure. But they got their shots by beating the nr 1 MW contender, very decisively in Tito's case. Duran never beat the top MW contender.

    And no one is saying that Hopkins is great purely because he beat these guys, but because he beat them and every other top MW for a decade.

    If you still think that the loss to Jones disqualifies him from the top 5, then this should also be the case for Hagler and his loss to Leonard.
     
    Bokaj, Jan 31, 2021
    Bokaj, Jan 31, 2021
    #75
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