The argument wasn't the credibility of Chuvalo's testimony. Klompton expressed doubt at He Grant's claim of Chuvalo praising Williams power, as it didn't come from a direct source. All I did was verify Chuvalo did indeed make the claim.
Liston was ranked no9 in 1958. 1958 Floyd Patterson, Champion Ingemar Johansson Nino Valdes Zora Folley Henry Cooper Willie Pastrano Archie Moore Eddie Machen Brian London Sonny Liston Mike DeJohn
Yep, all dozen or so guys who BEAT Williams thought he hit really hard. (LOL) Like I said the other day, after Marciano beat him, Rocky would probably say Williams hit really hard, as well. Too bad Cleveland didn't hit harder. Maybe so many people wouldn't have beaten him.
Those are the ratings from the February 1959 issue. He'd just snuck in there. The point being Marciano had already decided not to come back in the summer of 58. That's why Patterson switched gears and fought Harris that summer (and, as you can see, Harris was no longer in the ratings by the February 1959 issue). Rocky was training to come back with the intention of fighting for the title, not to fight a guy who wasn't rated at the time. When he realized he didn't have the desire anymore, he didn't even make the attempt.
Mcvey, don't even bother with this guy. He's a hypocritical, self-contradicting, dishonest, POS. Not to mention the biggest Wilder dickrider this forum's ever seen.
Exactly, why would Marciano start training for a comeback to fight Liston? The money and the fight that people would have paid to see would have been Marciano-Patterson. Not Marciano against some guy who isnt rated. What does Marciano's aborted comeback, which never even got off the ground, have to do with Williams anyway? Williams, despite what he and his weird cult would have you believe, was a non entity at this point.
Who said that Rocky ducked Liston or Williams ? It's obvious the career timelines don't match .. his points were to confirm that Williams was a big hitter based on his discussions w Chuvalo and that Liston and Williams were fighters most did not go out of their way to fight in the late 1950's. As far as Chuvalo saying Rocky was well managed, so what, he was ? He was also smart enough to get out on time and stay retired. He was also smart enough in 59-60 when publicly considering a comeback fight with Ingo to never express the same interest w Liston who was then very much in the scene. Only miserable hysterics with zero business aptitude would take that as saying Chuvalo didn't like Marciano or wouldn't jump at the chance too use his fame for career advancement.
I didn't disagree about anyone being "well managed" or say anything about Chuvalo. You said ... Your buddy said ... Chuvalo said ... (if I have that right - LOL) Marciano never considered fighting Liston. And I said why would he? Marciano began training in 57 and 58 because he was thinking about fighting Patterson for the title. And he chose not to. (Liston was in prison in 57 and unranked when Marciano decided not to come back in the summer of 58.) You said Marciano also talked about coming back against Johansson when he had the belt (in 59), but, again he chose not to. Patterson and Johansson were the only guys to hold the title after Marciano in the 50s. So those were the two fighters he considered. You saying ... your buddy said ... Chuvalo said (again, think I got that right) Marciano never considered Liston ... that didn't merit a phone call to your friend. I could've told you that. Why would Marciano consider a guy in prison or a guy who wasn't rated? Marciano was looking for a possible title fight. And Liston didn't have a title in the 1950s.
i think our lines are crossed as I’m not debating you. BTW, it was a text to my friend, not a call, since you’re being exact. that said, in the past six or seven years my appreciation for Rocky has grown and grown .. none of this is meant to disrespect him. Just discuss.
I've no doubt Marciano hit harder than a 19 year old green, undeveloped, Williams. Unfortunately this means nothing unless we're pitting a teenage Big Cat, against a prime Rocky.
Joe Louis said he believed Satterfield hit harder than Marciano ... I say this w the full Marciano disclaimer to his attack mob that I am a big Rocky fan.
