Your thoughts on the 1967 WBA heavyweight tournament?

Yank was a smart guy. He didn't want Frazier to fight Ali before Ali was stripped. He also wanted Joe to avoid George.

As a fan, i love to see the best fighting the best. However, a managers job is to look out for his fighter, and i think Yank did a stellar job.

I don't see anyone beating Frazier in 1967. If he had entered the tournament, he would have beaten anyone with relative ease, be it Ellis, Quarry or Patterson. Slick boxers and counter punchers were tailor made for Joe. The rough and tumble Bonavena gave Joe a hard time first time around, but Frazier was always going to win the rematch, as he did.

The only guy (besides Ali) who has a small chance vs Frazier in 1967 is the aging Sonny Liston. Of course Liston wasn't in the tournament. However, Liston allegedly wanted this match up but Yank didn't. It was too high risk/low reward a fight. Liston would have a chance vs Joe even in 1967.

Frazier was a tiger who never ducked anyone. However, Yank was smart in delaying some match ups and avoiding others (like Liston)

 

Me too. It would have been very exciting, but one sided. I think Joe TKO 5.

 

I actually have to take this back. I think a TKO in 5 may have been a conservative number I said in haste. I actually think that Joe wins, and by knockout is quite obvious. However, how long it takes I think is very flexible. Joe is obviously capable of taking Floyd out in the 1st, but could take a long time, and I think it could also take him as long as 7, with a very good fight taking place in that time. Although I cannot figure a single reason how this could go longer than 7.

 

Would have been fun while it lasted. I think Leotis Martin would have given Frazier a good fight. Ultimately Frazier would have won but I was always impressed with the film I have seen of Martin. He was a truth machine.

 

Two Philly fighters, though I do think Martin has been blown up into a myth by historians and fans. Unfortunately, there is not near enough film to back either theory that connotates Martin. Trust me, I would with open arms welcome film of his fights with Spencer, Mildenberger, and Lewis, and given those were his biggest fights aside from the film provided already, it would probably be the determining factor, I would imagine.

 

Yeah. Although dissimilar in a lot of ways, I have always thought of Jerry Quarry as a passive version of Joe Frazier. They were very similar in a lot of ways that I think many would deny.

 

Martin was a solid pro and a top contender. I don't think he would have come close to beating a prime Sonny Liston but he was a very good/tough fighter.

 

The basic premise of the tournament was flawed because the WBA presumed to take the title away from a standing champion, Muhammad Ali. Otherwise, however I think the tournament was beneficial for the sport. They chose eight legitimate contenders, and the fights ended up being competitive and not without some surprises. Overall, it was well run. I think Ellis deserves a lot of credit for developing himself to the maximum of his potential. That Frazier was not in the tournament was not the WBA's or Ellis' fault. Joe decided to duck out and wait for the new Madison Square Garden to be built and avoid having to fight the top contenders. Buster Mathis had never fought a real contender at the time, but he was a New York boy and the fact that he had defeated Frazier in the amateurs made the fight a natural in NY. Joe's path to the NY version of the title was a lot easier than that of Ellis. As it turned out, Ellis was not as good a fighter as Frazier, but I don't begrudge Jimmy his "day in the sun." He had at least as good a claim to the title after winning his tournament as Frazier did after defeating Mathis even taking into account that I think most people even at that time figured Frazier to be the better fighter.

 

I think Fraizer did as Yank desired a loyal man, and a brave one, kill or be killed from his childhood years to the day he passed.

 

I think it's both logical and fair of you to consider Ellis' win as legitimate as Frazier's.