In your opinion. So you believe the 160 pound Toney took a better punch than heavyweight Toney? You would also believe that the cruiserweight version of Holyfield took a better punch than the guy shaking off the bombs of Foreman and Tyson?
No I don't see Louis knocking out old Foreman. If a KO is happening I actually see it more in Foreman's favour if he catches Louis.
This. Foreman didn’t get more durable with age. Foreman got smarter, since in his late 30’s to mid 40’s Foreman was a ring vet with around 70 fights under his belt. I don’t remember Foreman taking too many flush shot during his comeback, since Foreman made it very difficult to hit him square on the chin. Foreman would often tuck his chin underneath is cross guard, so most of the punches either grazed the side of his face or head, but wouldn’t connect clean on his chin.
I think the issues is people refuse to give Foreman credit for his defense in the 90's. It's a way more logical explanation than Foreman suddenly getting a better chin in his 40's after a long amateur+professional career in the 70's. Sure the extra weight and strength training might have helped him absorb blows overall a little bit, but your actual jaw isn't going to improve at that age. Anyone who actually watches the fights and isn't a boxrec warrior or just skims through clips on youtube knows he had a very tight guard and rarely got nailed flush to the jaw.
I think Louis would stop both version of Foreman. The 90s Foreman would probably succumb to a TKO inside 7 rounds.
Foreman had freakish durability. I don't see Louis having a chance to stop him unless it's very late and Louis will probably be stopped himself before ever getting that opportunity.
I agree that George’s cross arm defense and ability to shove attacking fighters off balance with his huge strength was a factor in his durability in his second career. But he really did exhibit an amazing chin when required too. I still shake my head at him weathering and then immediately recovering from that 17 punch combination Holyfield bounced off his cement chin. Tyson who had a sturdy as hell chin was rendered senseless by a lesser assault from a lesser version of Holyfield and couldn’t recover between rounds 10-11. Stewart, Morrison and Moorer also landed plenty of hard flush shots which barely registered with George. I reckon he always had a rock chin but old Foreman had the endurance and composure to endure huge punishment with a zen like calm.
I pick Louis to stop without a shred of doubt. Holyfield hurt Foreman on three separate occasions with sneaky counters and lengthy combinations. He had him all but out as I recall, at the end of the forth. I find it extremely hard to see Holyfield do that, but Louis not. Louis was better at setting up shots, landing them at angles you don't see coming, better at throwing combinations, getting round a guard and hit much, much harder.
Depends on Louis' motivation. He could outbox old George comfortably. Old George presents enough of a threat that Louis doesn't need to go in for the kill. But for the sake of argument, yes Louis could do it, but it depends on a lot. The pace of the fight, for one. If Louis could see a fast pace that takes George out of his comfort zone, George may have to fight harder than he'd like, leading to possible tiredness later in the fight. Louis would need for George to be tiring, I think. Next, accumulative punishment. I don't see Louis getting George out of there without having to wear him down first. Louis would have to hit George hard and often enough to mark him up, puff up his eyes, and generally just punish him overall. Even if George is taking shots and is tiring, it's possible Louis would have to stagger him with a heavy counter shot to get the ball rolking. Holyfield hit George cleanly without worrying Big George too much. BUT, late in the 9th he hit George with a great counter right that made George stagger into the ropes, taking shots. The round ended before George took much more punishment, but he was in some distress. So yes, Louis could stop him, but George would most likely have to be winded, tired, having absorbed a lot of damage already, and would have to get hit by something really heavy he didn't see coming. One could also say that if George just wanted to last the 12/15, he could do so.
Never said he never got nailed by some big shots. He did. You do have a great point about him taking shots from Stewart, Morrison, etc. As a side note, that 17 punch combo Holyfield threw, maybe like half of them actually landed flush. Watch it again, Foreman rolls with many of them even if he can't block all of them and Holyfield later praised Foreman's defense in an interview. Anyway, my point was that 70's Foreman's chin is questioned when it really shouldn't be. After facing all those big hitters in the 90's he insisted NOBODY hit him like Lyle in more than half a dozen separate interviews. Nobody. Yet people will shift the goal posts and say he is exaggerating and trying to find a way to explain that his chin somehow got better as a fat 40 year old man with tons of wear and tear from a long amateur and pro career before attempting a comeback. The only thing that got better was his defense and, like you said, his ability to remain calm while in the 70's he would fly into a rage and just keep attacking. Lyle was the ONLY person in the 70's or 90's who had the audacity to plant his feet and trade blows with Foreman putting all his weight into his shots with no fear of what came right back. I'm sure that contributed to the impression he got. Morrison, Briggs, and Stewart (who were known for being big hitters) suddenly figured out that they could use lateral movement and did just that from round 1. Cooney had Foreman hurt by his own admission but lacked the durability to capitalize. Moorer severely underestimated Foreman and got knocked out after being baited into standing in front of him. The Ali and Young knockdowns were purely due to severe exhaustion after taking hundreds of blows in hot outdoor weather. If 90's Foreman just swung for the fences with zero regard for defense in hot outdoor weather he would probably get dropped too.
I think Foreman had better balance in his 2nd career. He also boxed at a slower pace, not leaving himself vulnerable as much. Older George worked behind that big left jab consistently. He would pick his spots to unleash his power punches. 70s Foreman was a terror coming at a guy but sometimes he got a little sloppy. That's why I think GF could stay up off the canvas.
