Hexalogie: Hagler (instead of LaMotta) 6 Times vs. Sugar Ray Robinson

4-5 but I would favor him each time IMO

 

I don't know, four, five or six. Hagler's an awful style for Robinson. All of Robinson's troubles came vs strong, bullish fighters. Guys like Basilio, Fullmer, Basora, Turpin, Tiger Jones, Zivic, Abrams, Servo, etc; all had the same things at the base of the style they used vs Robinson: core strength, low centre of gravity, and pressure fighting. Hagler opted to turn pressure fighter vs taller, rangier fighters. I can't imagine him not doing that vs someone like Robinson, who'd also be quicker. Furthermore, if he takes the place of LaMotta, he'd be fighting a welterweight Robinson four out of six. Meaning that strength difference is highlighted even more. I can't see Robinson winning in those situations.

It would be fair to agree that Saint Valentine's Day Robinson would be facing an older Hagler, like Robinson was vs LaMotta. I'd absolutely pick Robinson at his absolutely peak over Hagler from Mugabi/Leonard.

So my answer is five.

 

Robinson wins every time; although even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while so chalk up one victory for
Hagler. SRR too fast, too slick, too smart to lose to Hagler.

 

I don't think it'd be the ultimate mismatch. They'd be good, competitive fights at the very highest level. It's just that Hagler had size and style advantages, as well as being just as consistent.

When I mean low centre of gravity, I mean in relation to Robinson. Hagler was a good couple inches shorter, and I doubt Robinson would come to him. He'd fight out of a crouch and make himself even shorter. I think he'd clearly be the one who's in charge, physically.

Sorry, mate. I don't get what you mean there. I can't say I've ever seen Hagler called crude or clumsy, and if you mean transition (as in, between stances) then I don't agree with that either. I don't think Hagler overextended or leant over his hips much at all, certainly not more than LaMotta or Basilio.

 

I'd favour SRR to beat him all the time, but Hagler might squeeze one in if the fights happened in the exact sort of order and amidst a similar schedule as they did vs La Motta.

 

Robinson competed fairly evenly for the most part in his fights with guys like Fullmer and Turpin. Hagler is a class above these. Robinson was good enough at middleweight to win 1 or 2 if Hagler doesn't have his best night.
Hagler at his best wouldn't let Robinson have room to operate and would outwork him on the inside.

Hagler is as good an infighter as anyone Robinson faced at middleweight and he also had just about everything else, long reach, southpaw or orthodox, Atg chin, great stamina and always in shape. Both on their best nights Hagler would win every time.

 

I concur with George Crowcroft and McGrain - sub Hagler into the same time-line as La Motta and Robbi struggles to beat him, as whilst not stronger than La Motta IMO, Hagler was a better fighter and wouldn't hesitate to impose himself on the Robbi that La Motta found for the first few fights of the series.

Like McGrain, I don't see Hagler besting the Robbi of the massacre extrapolating timelines of La Motta and Hagler at the respective points of their careers. The one thing that does give me a little concern is the Hagler that faced Duran and Leonard - was this symptoms of age and wars in the ring or was it something inside Hagler that suggested if he respected your skillset/legend or found your skillset to upset his timing, would he become somewhat passive at key turning moment opportunities. The best MW version of Robbi is a favourite in my books versus any version of Hagler from Duran onwards - I don't see the stamina issues that Leonard had in 87 in that version of Robbi and Robbi hit harder and was more battle tested - he's also not fighting the same fight that Hearns did.

 

I could see Hagler winning 1 fight, maybe 2. Robinson would have been too quick for him. Plenty of power to keep him honest.

 

The thirty year old Ray that first won the title would win on speed , stamina .. he was blazing fast and we saw the trouble Hagler had with Leonard’s speed. Keep in mind Robinson was also a brutal puncher. Hagler was not walking through him no matter what Hagler’s chin. Very tough fights but I favor Robinson over 15.

 

It’s an interesting post.

Many people will pick Marvin for obvious reasons. But you’ve got to look at many factors.

You can’t just envisage a prime Marvin Hagler fighting Ray 6 times.

You have to try and envisage him living in the same era, under the same conditions. For example, one of their fights would have taken place just 3 weeks apart.

We know that Marvin was a machine, but we don’t know how he’d have fared fighting Ray twice in a period of 3 weeks. It’s impossible to know. Ray lived in a different world.