Sonny Liston vs Ken Norton, both prime, 15 rounds.

Because obviously Liston and Holmes are WORLDS apart. Foreman and Liston however are much closer i.e. huge punching ATG's who love nothing better than pole axing you.

Why compare Liston to someone with average to good power who doesn't have the intimidation factor when you compare him to someone with comparable ATG power who also has the intimidation factor both of which are huge components of this matchup?

It's common sense 101.

 

Please name "these big men who could really fight" that Shavers flattened.

Also the reason that comparisons are being made between Liston and Foreman is because they're very similar in terms of style and power, while Liston and Holmes had 2 completely different styles to each other.

 

I still think Sonny wins this fight. I am only offering an alternative view. Imagine Larry fighting Foley, Patterson, Harris and the nationally televised execution of Westphall?

Sonny had the intimidation factor going on as an added bonus. I accept that.

 

Shavers flattened Norton for one. That was the best one. Larry got up, but he was flattened. Joe Bugner and Henry Clark. Jimmy Young and Jimmy Ellis both around 200lb. . That’s enough.

 

God you’re a douche- Big fella on a little sports forum.

 

Word- How is he even arguing Shavers power lol.

 

Your sense of entitlement is laughable.

 

Patterson was an excellent heavyweight. As a matter of fact he would rank higher than anyone Larry beat.

Imagine Liston fighting Zanon, LeDoux, Spinks, Frank, Rodriguez and Marvis Frazier.

 

Young and Ellis were both under 200 pounds. Youngs record at the time was 7-3 against Shavers 42-2-0.

Bugner was stopped on a cut.

 

Liston cracks the glass chin

 

That's an example of the better man losing to the lesser man imo.

I do remember some defense by Liston in those fights. Problem is, where else did he show defense? Who else ever put Liston on the back foot? No body that we have on film, really. Ali did here and there. Machen did briefly, I suppose. How did Liston defend himself though?

 

Hmmm...just me, but I put him just under Norton at ATG. I don't think his beating Ingo ranks with beating Ali (twice), or even giving prime Holmes the fight of his life.

 

my mistake Ellis was one quarter of a pound under 200lb. Young was one pound under for the fight he lost to Shavers and over 200lb when he drew with Shavers. I noticed @George Crowcroft thought this was an amusing point. One quarter of a pound wrong. Silly me. I have corrected my post to make the point more suitable for him.

Bugner was indeed stopped on a cut, but he had been decked quite hard as well.
Stopping a man like Bugner won’t rule Shavers out as a man who flattened bigger men who could fight. Bugner was 29lb heavier than Shavers was. Did Sonny give away that kind of weight against a good fighter?

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Patterson was-indeed an excellent heavyweight. While I credit Liston with the ability to install fear into Patterson both times, would you regard the frozen versions of Floyd that Sonny beat as prime Floyd? There were harder, more resilient versions of Patterson to beat wasn’t there?

Even so the fear factor is a legitimate asset. i imagine it fair to predict Norton might also be intimidated by Sonny too since something along those lines could have happened vs Foreman. But There is also a chance Ken might be competitive. As he was versus Larry and Muhammad. It might not be so simple. It could be. Who knows?