Deontay Wilder vs Primo Carnera

I mean, the number of lost fights means nothing when you try to evaluate who faced better competition. I'd say that Schaff was better than almost all Wilder opponents, with the exception of Fury and maybe Ortiz.

You are right here, but again - choosing Baer as an argument against Carnera isn't good from your part either.

 

It's a common debate here, a lot of people believe that Baer was at very least 6'3 based on how tall he was next to other fighters. Of course we don't have much proofs, but with his long reach measurement it'd make more sense.

Baer wasn't really small, even for modern criteria.

 

Stiverne won what, one round in twelve? He Joe Louis'd him in the rematch. Duhaupas one round in ten?

Szpilka was awkward but the finish was pretty scary and if anything it's a plus for Widler. We all know he's average per skillset but has the patience to sit back and be confident his time will come via power.

Did Molina win more than a round? He did have one moment and was expected to be easier but that's heavyweight championship boxing. Holmes, Louis, Lewis, Marciano etc all had tougher fights than expected at times.

I really don't rate Wilder much but his power puts him in the box seat and then some against a guy like Carnera and it is blatantly obvious.

 

It's more about the duration of these fights, along with lack of action from Wilder's part for most of the time. I don't know, some people compare him to the best punchers ever and these fights doesn't make him look that good.

Yeah, I never denied his power (he's one of the most powerful punchers ever, just not among the best) and I already said that he's the favorite here.

 

Never said they were. You claimed Wilder was not a fast finisher.

If you meant in terms of finishing a fight quickly, nearly half of his fights are in the 1st round.

If you mean in terms of going for the kill when he has a guy hurt, he does that all of the time and is often succesful. Only Stiverne 1 and Fury managed to avoid getting blasted out. Stiverne actually got knocked down in the 1st fight and then UFC tackled Wilder to avoid getting KO'd. Fury was brutally dropped twice, and the 2nd knockdown he was given quite a bit of time to gather himself by the ref. There probably wouldn't even be rematches without those shenanigans and Wilder would have a 100% KO ratio.

So either way, your statement is false. He has a good killer instinct and he has multiple early round KO's.

Read before you reply. I literally wrote that they were "ex" champions. Point being they were name opponents. Stiverne was only 2 years older since the first fight.

Don't start using the janitor logic of ignoring belt holders and pretending like it's easy to be undisputed today comparing them to previous eras.

This is completely false. Breazeale beat the undefeated Ugonoh in a fight of the year candidate and beat Molina in a title eliminator.

You sound like a grumpy grandpa who hasn't watched any modern fights and claims they all suck.

Vitali still stopped more than 90% of his opponents and was completely healthy and Wilder with a broken hand stopped the same opponent faster.

Only a hater would say stopping a guy with a broken hand isn't impressive. Arreola is a damn tank and eats punches for breakfast. This would be like if Shavers stopped Bonavena with a broken hand.

Is Carnera going to turn southpaw and use tricky angles and footwork to get away from Wilder???

You're right, you didn't say he was a bad finisher but you said he wasn't a fast finisher and then you shifted the goal post to talk about the level of opposition.

What main points did I not answer?

 

Thanks for the response. It would seem strange to me for a fighter's height to be shortened in HW division.

You've no doubt seen this photo before: Primo is wearing shoes with a heel, but Baer is on a platform. Primo 6'5.5" looks quite a bit taller.

6'2.5" seems fairly accurate

https://www.awesomestories.com/images/user/d6c91b7394.jpg

 

I'm not going to continue this debate, but I bet I'm far younger than you. Personal attacks are the weakest "arguments" in discussion, so try not to use them in future

By the way, I have a lot of modern fighters high on my all-time list. I have Wladimir inside my top 10 for example.

 

Literally half the forum, including multiple other forums, have compared Baer to Wilder. So...not sure why you're choosing this hill to die on. Obviously they aren't "exactly" the same, but they're close enough to warrant a comparison if the discussion is Carnera vs Wilder.

Number of lost fights means a lot actually, depending on the level of skill of the people you lost to, if you managed to avenge any of those losses, if any of those losses ended in brutal knockouts, etc.

Schaff could have had more skill than Sugar Ray Robinson, but what matters is he lost to Carnera who himself isn't that good no matter how you slice it. This was one of the weaker eras in HW history even for back then. You had literal barroom brawlers, farmers, bouncers, and local tough guys stringing together 15-20 wins and then getting a shot at glory against other brawlers, farmers, etc. The best of the bums got to fight guys like Carnera who himself was literally a circus strong man who moved up the rankings against carefully selected opponents--many of whom were not particularly good even by that era's standards. Not every boxer fit this description, but enough of them did to make me view that era with the side eye.

 

Carnera had an extremely stationary head, leaned back to avoid punches and kept his arms at his waist. None of which bodes well for an encounter with Wilder.

 

Wilder KO.

 

Carnera would get badly injured. Say what you want about Wilder but you can't deny that he's at the very top when it comes in the power department, and Carnera doesn't have the skills of Fury. Thats not a knock against Primo either because he had a ton of heart, he would keep getting up until he got knocked unconcious.

 

They were measured, but I don't think they always stood straight up when measured. People didn't seem to care what their heights were listed as then, not as much as they seem to today. Not only that, but the time of day even enters the picture when you're talking an inch in height. Shoes or no shoes can be a factor, also. There is a lot that goes into measurements. I'm not certain, but sometimes I would assume the fighter's word was taken, so whenever he was measured last and under whatever circumstances. Weights make weight divisions not heights, so I doubt if they cared much about heights back then.

 

Three Angels for Primo: Chok, Jacko & Janitor.

 

I like the idea of being any kind of Angel.

 

wtf am I chop liver