Deontay Wilder vs Primo Carnera

Saw the cry coming, so don´t worry. You can still join The Nebulous Four ..

 

A few on here have dug themselves such a big hole over the years with their off the wall views that they simply have to carry on as anything less would be akin to them admitting they are wrong.

Similar to small man syndrome.
The smaller the person the more fervently they stamp their heels.
Some fabricate opposing viewpoints as, in their minds, it adds 2" to their height.

 

Wilder via violent, brutal KO

 

Not so much his power as his credentials as a finisher.

Would you give a champion more credit for beating Chris Byrd or Audley Harrison in their respective primes?

Whatever Carnera's failings, he did beat the current undisputed champion, and he did beat a number of men ranked in the top ten to get his title shot. He essentially fought a whose who of the name fighters of the era. Wilder for contrast was matched very timidly, both as a contender and as a champion.

 

Wilder literally knocked out or stopped every opponent he faced except Fury--a Man who was brutally dropped twice and given plenty of time to recover. How are his credentials as a finisher questionable?

That depends. Is the champion beating a Byrd who has lots of mileage and 12 losses?

You are being facetious by comparing totally different eras. This is why people get frustrated with you.

You are ignoring the fact it is not easy to become undisputed in today's era. Usyk and Crawford are the only undisputed champions in the last 20+ years and it took both of them a while to get all 4 belts.

For the 3rd time, I am not trying to suggest Wilder has an amazing record but you and I both know you have to move heaven and Earth to deal with other promoters, sanctioning bodies, etc. Carnera didn't have that problem. There was only 1 championship. In fact, as I mentioned earlier (which you conveniently ignored), Carnera had corrupt backers carefully moving him along the rankings. Any criticism you have for Wilder's management you can say virtually the same thing about Carnera.

And yes Carnera did eventually step up in class and look what happened? Battered by Baer, Louis, etc. He is the perfect example of a protected fighter.

Wilder went out of his way to fight Ortiz when no one else would. He was Joshua's mandatory and was paid step aside money then get screwed over and Wilder fought him twice. He went out of his way to fight Fury twice and is attempting to enforce his contract for a 3rd fight despite losing badly. He attempted to unify with Joseph parker when he was the wbo champ and Parker turned him down. Povetkin fight didn't happen because he blew multiple drug tests. This idea wilder avoids making big fights is complete nonsense.

 

Sometimes I wonder, what these trolls get out of trying to defend obvious ridiculous opinions. If you're into boxing history, wouldn't it be more fun/satisfying to engage in a serious exchange of views - rather than spouting silly nonsense in a place like this? I don't get it!

 

I am of the opinion that some people just have to be different, similar to those that refuse to wear face masks.
Thankfully, their opinions on some subjects are so far off rational thought that they remain in a very small minority.

 

Wilder would smash Carnera in the early rounds, Carnera was easy to hit and Wilder would find time to knock him out...

 

Next time Dont make me cry and act like you know.

 

Before winning the world title, Primo fought:

George Godfrey
Jim Maloney
Paulino Uzcudun
Jack Sharkey
Larry Gains
Stanley Poreda
Art Lasky
King Levinsky
Ernie Schaaf

Then after winning the title from Sharkey fights defends it against Tommy Loughran and loses it to Max Baer, and after which he fights both Joe Louis and Walter Neusal

And that's not including the two fights with Stribling because of the question marks around them (which I haven't looked into to comment on).

Also fought many of the black heavyweights in George Godfrey, Bearcat Wright, Larry Gains, Seal Harris, Joe Louis, and Leroy Haynes

You can criticize him for his padded reocrd, but he fought plenty of top fighters.

 

Look, IMO, this fight wouldn't be pretty. Would Carnera maul Wilder the way Fury did in the 2nd fight? Probably no. Was Carnera a great boxer? No. I simply believe that, against Wilder, Primo was skilled ENOUGH to start putting rounds in the bank, and sound enough to avoid Wilder's pop shots, most of the time, and sturdy enough to take a few, if he had to, along the way, especially with his corner telling him he was winning the fight. After eight rounds or so, Wilder would be told he needs a knockout to win. Carnera would be told the opposite. Could Wilder catch him and finish him? It's possible. Would I bet on Wilder? No. I think Primo could bank enough rounds and hold Wilder off for the rest, and even get off the canvas once, if he had to. It would have been an interesting fight to watch. Great fun! As with all Wilder fights, full of suspense all the way to the end.

 

I am conscious that a fighters KO% usually drops off very rapidly, when they start fighting top ten contenders, even if they are an exceptionally hard puncher.

I am also conscious that Wilder has fought very few top contenders, and that where he has he has got mixed results.

I accept Wilder as one of the hardest punchers of all time, but I am still withholding judgment on him as a finisher.

Best version of Byrd or the best version of Harrison.

I think that I already know the answer.

I accept what you say about unifying the titles, but even if we allow for that, was Wilder ever the #1 heavyweight in the world (I think he might have been very briefly)?

Did he ever beat the man who was the #1 heavyweight in the world?

Did he ever even beat anybody ranked in the top 3?

If the answer to the above is no, then his accomplishment is not equal to Carnera's.

Baer and Louis were not a step up from the men that Carnera had fought previously on paper.

They were just much better fighters, who happened to hold the same rankings.

The politics of the era are complex, and you might possibly understand them better than I.

What I do know for certain, is that Wilder was a belt milker.

His first six title defenses were very weak.

Carnera took a gimme against Uzcdun, then he fought the #2 Ring contender, then he went out on his shield against the #1 Ring contender.

 

The idea that Carnera was protected compared to Wilder is crazy...

 

-Godfrey ended in a DQ after Godfrey was apparently beating the crap out of Primo.
-He went 1:1 with Jim Maloney
-There were people felt the first Uzcudin fight was a draw
-Sharkey had Primo down and on qveer street and was robbed of a DQ win due to Carnera going down without getting hit. He thrashed him regardless and won a wide UD. The rematch with Sharkey looked odd and there were screams of a fix.
-Gains beat the crap out of Carnera and won convincingly.
-Pareda was 60 lbs lighter than Carnera and yet beat him despite the huge difference in weight and the blatant frequent fouling from Carnera. They literally suspended the ref for showing favoritism to Carnera. So much for combating the idea he was a protected fighter.
-Carnera was freaking 70 lbs heavier than Levinski who had 20 losses.
-Carnera was 40 lbs heavier than Schaaf and Schaaf had already lost 12 times.
-Carnera was 84 lbs heavier than Loughran who had 23 losses.

So yes, Carnera "fought" plenty of the top fighters of his era and had VERY mixed, dubious results. He lost to several of the men you listed. He won some very questionable decisions, scored a very suspicious knockout, was accused of fixed fights, and even the few fights he won convincingly without controversy were over guys he absolutely dwarfed by 40 lbs or more.

You literally just proved my point that Carnera was smoke and mirrors. When he stepped up in class, if he couldn't overwhelm his opponents with a gigantic size advantage he often got completely outboxed or knocked out. He was the epitome of the big fish in a small. A strong man who was moved along the rankings carefully and milked out for his size. Enough with the revisionist nonsense. Even for his era he just wasn't that good.

Compare that to Wilder being a scrawny 210+ in some fights yet knocking out guys who outweigh anywhere from 20-50+ lbs. Yet people are bigging up Carnera and hating on Wilder.