Deontay Wilder vs Primo Carnera

Wilder didn't allow anything to "expire." Wilder exercised his rematch clause with Fury one week after he lost to him. They already had a deal in place for a third fight. The purse splits and everything were agreed upon. Dates were scheduled last summer and last fall, and they were pushed back because of Covid and because Arum insisted they needed a live gate (because the rematch broke live gate receipt records in Vegas).

Then the TV networks asked that the fight be pushed back to 2021.

THEN Fury said he wouldn't fight Wilder again because Wilder called him a cheat.

Because THEY HAVE a signed contract, the disagreement went to an arbitrator who still hasn't made a ruling ... because the only reason they didn't fight was because of COVID.

Meanwhile, since FURY says he WON'T fight Wilder (because Wilder called him names), Arum and Hearn and the gang negotiated a Fury-Joshua fight ... AND THEY still can't come up with dates EITHER because of Covid.

So, IN FAIRNESS, everything you wrote in that post about Wilder not wanted Fury again was false.

Some of you guys can quote facts from the 1930s, but you seem to be totally lost about facts that took place within the last year. (LOL)

 

1.-2. that's your view. As I showed many respected ranking bodies disagree with you.

3. Well as I said, then it proves very little in regards toward any presumption that Joshua was ducking Ortiz.

4. We will have to agree to disagree in regards to what Fury's standing as Lineal was worth post Wilder fight. But I can respect why you would hold an alternative view.

5. yeah...Please don't misrepresent my argument to score points...
I said I took issue with the WBC making Breazeale v Molina a final eliminator when Whyte was ranked above both. NOT that they shouldn't be allowed to fight in an eliminator because of that. I know where Whyte and Chisora were ranked. It bears no relation to my argument. So try not to straw man me like that.

But Molina serving a WADA ban for steroids when he fought Breazeale, yeah that kind of raises eye brows. Still Breazeale v Whyte in a final eliminator would have solved the WBC's mess.

So, do you agree Whyte was screwed over by the WBC?
Because you seem to have hit a dead end in terms of counter arguments. You are just repeating things I have shown repeatedly to be false now. So let's stop with saying nonsense like "he refused to fight Breazeale and Ortiz" over and over.

 

Yes, we should look at the only version that we know to have existed.

It depends what you are comparing.

If you are comparing their eras, then yes it is something that you need to factor in.

Both fighters were fighting what was available, in the form that it was available in.

If you are matching them head to head, then it is not.

 

This is what you said:

"It isn't true for Wilder because he was rarely anywhere close to 40 lbs lighter than Carnera."

You didn't mention his height or broad shoulders, you literally said that Wilder wouldn't be 40 lbs lighter than Carnera.

I never said that Carnera would "dwarf" Wilder, but I said that Carnera would have massive weight advantage, which you called a big advantage. It's you who denied the facts, not me.

Seriously, can't you just admit that you were wrong?

 

sure if you cherry pick wilder's lightest weights and pick Carnera's heaviest weights then get the average you can fit the narrative Carnera would be 40 lbs heavier. I'll give you that.

You do realize that unless Carnera can impose his weight on Wilder it won't matter right? You DO realize Wilder has knocked out SEVERAL men who weigh as much as Carnera...? What was the point in even bringing this up?

I mentioned WIlder's height, reach, and physical dimensions over and over again and you ignored it. So you not only play word games, you are either a liar or you just skimmed through my posts despite me repeating the same thing multiple times.

And this is what you wrote:

You didn't use the exact word dwarf but you straight up wrote that Wilder would be "small" standing next to Primo.

This is like arguing with a politician. "I didn't say I 'hit' her, I 'smacked' her your honor".

Instead of just agreeing to disagree or actually addressing any of the points I made, you want to look at "average" weights and zero in on this one thing to try and squeeze out some sort of minor/moral victory.

And we're COMPLETELY missing the point which was that Carnera was like a freaking senior in high school bullying 5th graders in the ring. And yet he still got his ass kicked more than a dozen times in a weak era. I don't understand this fascination you people have with him. Wilder is not a light heavyweight or a 5'10 feather fisted guy, nor does he have 20 losses and tons of wear and tear--he will literally be looking over Carnera's head as the ref gives his instructions.

 

What..? I already made calculation - if you take Wilder's average weight from last 10 fights then he's 39 lbs lighter than Carnera in his best 12 fights period. Wilder usually weighed around 220 lbs, Carnera fought consistently above 260 lbs.

I didn't cherry pick anything at all, if I use the lightest Wilder's weight and the highest Carnera's weight then the difference is almost 80 lbs... but I didn't do that.

You are wrong, you have clear problems with very basic arithmetics...

Wilder stopped total of 4 figthers above 260 lbs:

352 lbs Richard Greenie Jr (1-4 career record)
291 lbs Alvaro Morales (6-14 career record)
398 lbs Dustin Nichols (5-13 career record)
262 lbs Damon McCreary (15-7 record, former LHW)

It seems that you're not aware how huge Carnera was...

A liar? I didn't lie even once in the whole discussion. It's you who keep telling false things, like Wilder being 40 lbs lighter than Carnera only when you pick his lighest weight.

I said this because Carnera would have massive weight advantage. Weight is usually repeated when people talk about size in boxing, so what's your point? Would you call Bob Foster big next to shorter HWs?

It's not about "moral victory", I'm just defending the facts. What weight would you use as the best for Wilder? Carnera was around 265-270 lbs in his best performances. It's up to you what Wilder weight you want to use if you feel that my choice is not representative.

I don't have any fascination with him, he was nothing special. Doesn't change the fact that 270 lbs is 270 lbs, no matter if it's Carnera or someone else.

Yeah and he would have 40 lbs disadvantage, along with shorter reach. By the way, the difference between them is total of 4 cm in height - do you really find it significant?

 

Wilder's best performances are all between 215-225, whereas Carnera's between 255-265.

Call me a mathematician, but that's about 40lbs, with no cherry picking involved.

 

I just said I'll give it to you that he's 40 lbs heavier. It really won't matter tho.

Ok? So he knocked out people Carnera's size. What is your point? Does he need to make an entire career knocking out 20 guys who weight that much to convince you his power would be effective?

He knocked down the 260+ Fury who is like 10x the fighter Carnera was and a far more elusive target.

Yes, you lied when you said I never mentioned Wilder's height

I DID, on MULTIPLE occasions. We were discussing the size difference between them. Either that or you just didn't pay attention.

Bob Foster didn't have much muscle mass so that's a terrible example. He was also 6'3 and moving up from 175 lbs, not a 6'7 220+ guy with broad shoulders, long arms, and well developed lean muscle.

My point that you are either ignoring or too slow to realize is Carnera is NOT going to make Wilder look small or be able to just bully and shove Wilder around. That wasn't his style anyway. Wilder knocked out several men Carnera's size and Carnera doesn't offer any sort of stylistic issues that would be a problem for him. Carnera is a stiff, robotic guy who lacks defense and head movement and it would be a long shot for him to win even by puncher's chance. WTF is even the point of this arguement?

Funny that you demanded i admit I'm wrong about the average weights (which I did), yet you back peddled about Wilder being a fast finisher and now you won't even admit that you lied/overlooked me mentioning Wilder's height and won't admit you said Wilder would look small next to Carnera.

It's all word games and goal post shifting with you.

Yes because Wilder knew how to use his height to his advantage. He is used to fighting men that height--basically his whole career. He is used to fighting men who weigh 30-40 lbs heavier than him. Carnera is NOT used to fighting a fast twitch basketball player who hits like a damn truck.

 

When I said that you didn't mention his height, I meant specific post when you disputed Carnera's weight advantage. Still, it could be messy from my part so I want to appologise for that.

I'm done, continuing this discussion is pointless. I'm glad that you finally agreed that Carnera is 40 lbs heavier than Wilder, but explaining the rest to you isn't worth my time.

Have a good time.

 

Buts thats all hypotheticals. Im assuming you guys are using current Usyk, ykno the real Usyk

 

Yes, for the avoidance of any doubt.

 

I think that is a very fair assessment.

I will hold my hands up and admit I know very little about 1930s boxing. However when I was trying to figure out the weights of these great fighters of the past. I looked at when was they were deemed at their peak in terms of ranking. Then I used boxrec to see what were the best matches he was involved in around that time. Finally I considered wins and losses.

I pinned Carnera around 265lbs, and I was worried I was maybe underselling just how heavy he actually fought at. But I wouldn't go much below that.

I did the same for Wilder too. He came in around 220lbs. I agree with George his best performances as a Champion came around that weight. Wilder could potentially put weight on, but consider the fights when he was at his biggest. He didn't exactly perform to his best.

I don't think we can easily say Wilder would be the same fighter above 228lbs.
At 231lbs he complained about not feeling right in the ring, that he didn't have the legs...
In contrast Carnera often fought much bigger than 265lb.

I think 40lbs as a start point of weight difference is a fair assessment. But there would be the risk that Carnera could come in much heavier and it would be detrimental for Wilder to try to keep pace with him in that sense.

 

You need to relax, realize that Carnera was a muscle stud who was 260+lbs at prime weight and 6ft5 to Wilders lean, frail and small framed 6ft7 210-220lbs then take note that as far as actual wins are concerned Wilder has beaten Ortiz... that's it he would also look like a skeleton next to Dreamo Carnera.

He also has a better single performance if you have seen the Sharkey bout you would know Carnera is a step above Wilder in regards to the sweet science.

 

The fact you wrote "Carnera" and "sweet science" in the same sentence with a straight face means I cannot possibly take this conversation seriously

Wilder is no high ring IQ genius, but Carnera of all people isn't exactly setting the bar very high.

 

Carnera was a really good boxer for a true SHW. He probably covered more ring distance in an average round than Ibeabuchi and Tua did combined during their entire fight.