How Would You Rate Mayweather, H2H, at Each Weight?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by George Crowcroft, Mar 28, 2021.


  1. African Cobra

    African Cobra The Right Honourable Lord President of the Council banned Full Member

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    I think it’s irrelevant frankly because all he knew how to do was win. You must never underestimate the intangibles with a fighter by that I mean the things you cannot measure.
     
  2. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    The one I pick with confidence is Roberto Duran at his best. Maybe Floyd gives him fits but Duran seals the deal.
     
  3. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    I asked you a simple question. Please answer properly.
     
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  4. African Cobra

    African Cobra The Right Honourable Lord President of the Council banned Full Member

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    I have never seen him lose or come to losing in 50 professional fights so it’s difficult to imagine him losing. I think the following would have been most difficult:

    Azumah Nelson at 130 pounds
    Pernell Whittaker and Roberto Duran at 135pounds.
    Wilfredo Benitez at 140 and 147 pounds
    Sugar Ray Leonard, Don Curry and Felix Trinidad at 147 pounds.
    Thomas Hearns, Mike McCallum and Winky Wright at 154 pounds.

    I cannot say these guys would all have beaten him or any of them would but these would have been the most difficult fights at those weights.

    If I had to pick one a sincere Wilfredo Benitez who had trained would be the most difficult as Floyd might be facing a mirror image of himself.
     
  5. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA Full Member

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    I just mean there are a fair few tough trials for Floyd at super feather and LW, and more greats that I either favor or call evens. He doesn't make a clean sweep at welter, obviously, but I have more faith than you seem to in him keeping a lid on things up there and less than you in him doing so at 130 and 135.

    If we're talking welters he can't hang with, it really is just the pair of Rays and probably Armstrong that are definites, yeah? I could see a case being credibly made for Gavilán, Napoles, or Griffith but none are slam dunks.

    I happen to not see him beating Argüello, Pac or Sánchez (whose destination would have been super feather, and he already had dipped his toes in the water), nor even Nelson. Then five pounds up you have Durán, Pea, Ortiz, and Ike Williams beyond reach.

    154 just isn't that deep historically IMO. Winky and the Body Snatcher have a remote outside chance of maybe outboxing him on his worst night, as do Hitman and Terrible Terry to kayo him - but, eh, not putting a cent on any of those outcomes.


    :nusenuse:

    Just a difference in perspective. I think he was undoubtedly great (and more squarely in his prime) from 130-140 but faces stiffer competition there from the past and matches up quite well above there - and from what we saw, albeit very little at super welter, he could hold his own with some tough near-great SOB's enough to extrapolate him doing fine against all but a couple of welters and possibly all junior middles.
     
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  6. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA Full Member

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    I've always thought PBF at welter handily beats Tito, and Curry - much as I love me some LSC. (and yes that acronym had a meaning in the sport long before Leo Santa Cruz was even born, dang it! :cursing2:)
     
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  7. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    This. I don't automatically root for the old school fighter but prime Duran was a stone cold killer who'd beat your head in and laugh about it.
     
  8. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    I think that at 130 Lomachenko would give Floyd two handfuls of hellfire to deal with.
     
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  9. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Tell us about his legendary conquest of Berto again? :lol:
     
  10. African Cobra

    African Cobra The Right Honourable Lord President of the Council banned Full Member

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    Floyd would stop Lomachenko at 130 and 135 pounds. He would make Loma cry “Nomaschenko “.
     
  11. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Floyd would avoid Lomachenko you mean
     
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  12. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    I suppose that's fair. To me, Mayweather got worse as he moved up, and his opposition obviously got bigger and the difference in quality between the best ever lightweights and welterweights is pretty small IMO. Their respective top say, fifteens are really close in quality, and if someone were to make the argument that welterweights was better, I don't think I'd argue to frivolously with them. It's certainly not an opinion I'd dismiss. Although, I did find when I was making my top fifties that every division seems to have a curve where there's a noticeable drop in the quality of fighters. That happens much, much quicker at 147 than it did at 135. Anyway, I don't think there's a massive gap in quality between the two divisions, except that one is 12lbs heavier.

    I'd personally be very comfortable favouring Hearns over Mayweather - actually, more favourable than any other fighter in the weight's history. I'd also be happy taking the Duran who beat Leonard. When I say happy with, I don't mean I rule Mayweather out, you understand. Just that if it were to actually happen, I'd stick a cheeky tenner on Floyd losing. As for Gavilan, and Napoles, I think they're incredible fighters who're fully capable of molding themselves in that archetype that Floyd hated; the bullish, aggressive and overpowering type who go in there to out-work and out-fight. Napoles was absolutely incredible at ring-cutting, and Gavilan would be Castillo 10x over IMO. Some others who I think are either too big, too good or a bad style or a combination of all three are: Basilio, Rodriguez, Burley, Don Curry and prime De La Hoya.

    I'm definitely interested in hearing your reasoning for Arguello and the Pac-man beating prime, 130 Floyd. I think he's pretty damn bad for both, Arguello in particular. ETM's fights with Fernandez, Olivares, Marcel and Castillo hardly fill me with confidence in his chances vs Floyd; while I know none of those guys are exactly carbon copies of FMJ, they did all fluster Arguello with speedy, lateral movement and a cultured lead hand. I see the Fernandez fight as being similar to if Louis-Conn I was a ten rounder. I think if Mayweather took to fighting Arguello like he did Corrales, Arguello would find rounds slipping away and wouldn't be able to find the KO when he needs it. Personally, I think Mayweather at his best does what he did to Pacquiao in real life, every time. He knows how to use his length and is incredible at feeding those straights down the centre, and Pacquiao had those issues in abundance with Morales and Marquez. I haven't seen Sanchez vs Perez (yet, will defo give it the time of day at some point) but as I understand, it was more of a keep busy fight where he just didn't force himself down to 126 and Perez was coming up from super-bantam and definitely wasn't a super-feather. Even so, I imagine Sanchez's struggles with taller boxers who he couldn't bait into leading leads him to a defeat here, because I have absolutely zero doubt that Mayweather does everything a helluva lot better than Ford or Cowdell.

    I think he's arguably anywhere between 3-10 at lightweight. He isn't beating Duran, Armstrong and Chavez IMO and I'd bet against him if Pea was in the other corner, but outside of that, I don't think anyone's a solid favourite. Ike Williams has bad losses to classy out-boxer, Willie Joyce - who appears to be a teak tough pure boxer who's very textbook and fundamental. Mayweather can definitely do better than that in a one off IMO. I have a sneaking suspicion that Ortiz is too slow for Floyd.

    I'm absolutely, 100% certain that Mike McCallum beats the everling **** outta Floyd. He was like 170 on fight night, incredibly skilled and one of the more underrated physical talents out there, with an aggressive, imposing stature and style at 154. Hearns too, for reasons being that with one hand he bear pitched a shut out over Benitez - who's another JMW I think would beat Floyd. Winky is another guy I think would beat Floyd, based on nothing but size and maybe the same with Tito, although I'd take Floyd over Trinidad at 147, so a 154 fight may well go exactly the same. Griffith is a guy if take over Floyd, at 147 and 154, albeit in a genuinely boring and ugly fight reminiscent of Baldomir.

    Norris, Jackson, Vargas, Vazquez, etc; is his domain IMO at 154. These are the guys who could beat him and lose to him IMO.
     
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  13. African Cobra

    African Cobra The Right Honourable Lord President of the Council banned Full Member

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    The way Loma avoided Mikey Garcia.
     
  14. African Cobra

    African Cobra The Right Honourable Lord President of the Council banned Full Member

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    Berto is a former world champion. Why are you disrespecting him. Does it make you feel good about yourself?
     
  15. Surrix

    Surrix Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You mean pillow fisted money boy or pretty boy = goat version?

    He had avoided him?

    Btw I think he should had made fast trilogy vs Garry Russel Jr. ;)
    He had deserved rematch and this might had been sold pretty well.