Why people hate Carnera...

You know on his grave stone in Italy below his gold life like statue it reads.
"What is dead, may never die" oh how the ignorant fools were right. *laughs in forum*

 

If it was legit it was freak as we have zero of Primo KOing anyone of merit w one shot in his whole career and Sharkey, who had a good chin, took and kept getting up from monster shots from Joe Louis years later ,, you might agree Louis may have been a better puncher than Carnera Primo might have simply grown into one of those fighters who at their best did well against certain styles that he could manage to smother and particularly not well against huge hitting punchers who could reach him be it by reach, speed or both like a Baer and a Louis or even a Haynes who destroyed Carnera twice post title when Carnera was still in his 20's ..

 

How about how many KO's

 

This is where you guys blow it .. take the very generous benefit of the doubt being given Carnera and call it a win .. when you start playing charades to over blow a point creditability is lost , comparing Carnera's legitimacy in any way by building Trojan horses with a Foreman or Liston ? Come on ..

what exactly is your point ?

Primo has 71 recorded KO's ... here do you rate him as a puncher ?

Carnera has 88 career wins .. where is he in your all time heavyweight ratings ?

Let's be definitive ..

Here's mine .. Not in any list of top fifty punchers. After that I don't bother counting. Not a top thirty heavyweight. After that , same ..

to me he was a big, gutsy, well conditioned guy that may have been mobbed up but became a decent fighter and excelled based on the caliber and style he fought .. no more no less ...

 

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You're unsuccessing refuting and you know it with a smoke ands mirrors, bs three card monte posturing .. so let's substitute one punch KO's with legitimate KO power against quality opposition .. still claiming Primo is as legit as Sonny for George as a puncher ?

Again, to be specific, stand talk and answer my specific questions on where you rate him as a puncher and a fighter ..

 

Citing Carnera's KO of Schaaf, as if to legitimize his entire KO record, is about as disingenuous as one could get.

 

I've followed the argument, just fine, thanks. Better than you have, it seems.

You just need to cite better evidence.

 

Interesting discussion. What bothers me is that if we are relying on some sportswriters on Carnera, how accurate are they on issues we can find real evidence about? Here are some.

Carnera was a simple-minded peasant--who spoke four languages and was widely travelled. Schmeling among others who knew Carnera emphasized that he was an intelligent and thoughtful man, though with little formal education. Not unusual in those days.

Carnera had Acromegaly--What physician diagnosed him with this disease? This thread started with a film of Carnera playfully boxing with women. What it shows is a perfectly proportioned man. Whatever else, that doesn't look like a diseased body. Carnera was very big for his time, but his size, slightly less than 6' 6" and around 260 to 270 lbs, was not that grossly beyond parallel. The NFL had men taller and heavier. We also have film of Carnera wrestling in the early fifties, plus acting in Italian and Hollywood movies. He is big, almost as big as James Arness or Clint Walker, but nothing I see points to a diseased man. He is showing his age in the Hercules film with Steve Reeves and obviously is not in his old time condition but looks ordinary otherwise to me.

Carnera was left poverty stricken by the mob--google Villa Carnera.com and see his estate for yourself. Rather impressive. Google him at find a grave and you will find that he is buried in an imposing marble mausoleum. Down and outers usually don't end up buried like that. It could be rebutted that he got his money from lucrative film and wrestling careers, but there really is no evidence he left the US broke in the 1930's. How exactly would these writers know? Did they have access to his personal financial records?

The mob forced Sharkey to throw the championship fight by threatening his children--no evidence at all for this.

Sharkey got up from punches by Joe Louis but Carnera KO'd him with one punch-- Like Turpin stood up to all kinds of punches from Sugar Ray Robinson but went out with one left hook from Tiberio Mitri. So the Mitri fight had to be fixed? I think this argument is a real stretch.

There was anti-Italian prejudice--there was, and this might have distorted how Carnera was viewed, plus his apparent support for Mussolini probably didn't sit well with a lot of politically involved folks.

*just an aside--There was a long discussion about the mob. Janitor made the valid point that threatening the children of a major sports figure would risk a vicious public backlash. This was called naive because of the mob having corrupted the police and other public officials. Actually, I think this criticism was naive. In the US our government officials have always been far more ruthless amd murderous than the mob ever thought of being. This is mixing up the senior with the junior partners. The mob functioned as henchmen for political figures who held the real power. The corruption sited is actually payoffs by the mob to the politicians for legal protection.

 

Although it was a one punch knockout, it's not like Sharkey was doing fine, then suddenly he walked onto an uppercut.

He might well have been in trouble before the uppercut landed.


In that sense the result is not so inexplicable.

 

Primo Carnera is also significant for his charity efforts.

In 2004 his daughter Giovanna Carnera, accepted the Award to the Italians of the World, on behalf of her father.

https://www.niaf.org/niaf_event/gio...italy-bestows-posthumous-award-in-rome-italy/

 

This article makes a defense of Primo Carnera, and I think a valid one:

https://theusaboxingnews.com/primo-carnera-his-heavyweight-legend-lives-on/

 

I couldn't speak to all the points you mention above but, in respect to the reliability of the sportswriters of the day, it seems to me that, if there is a whole lot of inaccurate, malevolent and libelous reporting about Carnera going on, then there'd be some kind of libel suit in response on record. To the best of my knowledge, no such legal action was ever taken and would be glad to read the reports of any that was.

Conversely, on Budd Schulberg's book, 'The Harder They Fall', which was widely speculated at the time to have been based on Carnera's boxing career, we see Primo Carnera himself quoted as having said "It is all true."

He also indicated there was more to tell of the story.

Years later, Carnera would launch a lawsuit against the film studio that adapted the book for cinema, charging an "invasion of privacy". This seems an odd charge to make, if the film's storyline did not reflect a likeness of what actually happened to Carnera.

Again, before the film was made, many had previously published their speculations about Schulberg's book being analogous to Carnera and his boxing career - but, as far as I can tell, no libel actions were pursued against the authors of these claims, at that time, and none were taken against Schulberg, either.

We will most likely never know the whole story. Nevertheless, to my mind, there is enough factual and anecdotal evidence, as well as available film of Carnera, to draw one's conclusions about him with a degree confidence. And, in my experience, if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.



- Incidentally - and not that I think it particularity matters - Primo Carnera is cited in at least two scientific papers I have seen, in which the topic of acromegaly is discussed. (This is not to state categorically that Carnera was actually diagnosed with condition, however).