Most adaptable heavyweights?

Very surprised nobody mentioned Liston. He was excellent at making tactical adjustments to his game plan whenever necessary, perhaps most notably against Williams, and Machen. He was not the one-dimensional slugger, people seem to associate him with.

 

Even though I don't really like the guy,

Lennox Lewis could do it all ... He could box ... He could slug it out .... He could throw any punch effectively... Had elite power in the right hand ... Dude was a chess master out there

Making adjustments is a mark of a true ATG

 

He wasn't very adaptable. He couldn't even box for heaven's sake!

 

Yeah and had no defense at all i think your comment was

 

Oh, c'mon. You're gonna watch Liston fight Ali or Machen and then say Liston was a good boxer?

 

Shavers was most certainly not a killer finisher like Louis, Foreman and say Tyson for example.

Part of this is he simply wasn't the same class of fighter as much as i love the guy. The MASSIVE majority of his KO's are over hugely outclassed opposition who just weren't that good.

His most notable KO's are over Norton and Ellis (the only two top 10 guys he actually ever stopped) both came extremely early when he was fresh and full of spark which leads to his other big hurdle as a finisher - his stamina was generally really bad. By the time he dropped Holmes he was already exhausted and it was indeed a sloppy attempt to finish partly because of this. If after the KD we suddenly swapped him out for a fresh version he may well have ended it given the condition Larry was in.

 

what about his KO of Jimmy Young?

 

I watched Liston over all his fights. The guy could box. His fundamentals are excellent and his defense is so underrated by casuals it's not funny. His jab was top 5 in the division.

A good observer need only watch the two Cleveland Williams fights to notice some of Liston's many tricks. The head movement, the parrying and blocking, the anticipation and slipping and importantly the change up and extra caution and concentration while still staying quite aggressive. When he got his chance he sure didn't let it slip either.

Good boxing doesn't begin and end with having to be dancing around on your toes flicking fast jabs. Good boxing can be flatfooted. Good boxing can be a variety of things. Sanchez was a top boxer for example.

Using young Ali as proof Liston wasn't much of a boxer doesn't fly. No-one is going to outbox him and almost anyone is going to look slow. As for Machen well Liston beat him extremely clearly.

 

The fact that Liston beat Machen alone doesn't get you off the hook on that one.

I agree with you, I don't think a boxer has to be really flashy dancing around the ring and everything, but for crissakes, Liston was not only flat-footed, but he was pretty immobile and he was a pretty slow puncher. Two things I think are key to classifying as a good boxer. A jab alone doesn't cut it. As for the defense, I spoke hastily on that subject a while back. I will get back to watching Liston probably in a few months and I will see for myself how he is on defense.

 

Will. We're very close and I love you like a brother but I'm not going to sugarcoat it. You don't know jack**** about Liston.

 

Young had 10 fights under his belt. He was years away from being top 10. I believe he was a late replacement for Roy Williams and he also hadn't fought for 11 months.

Young improved immensely after this and pretty quickly. Earnie did drop him in a rematch a year and a half later but couldn't finish him. It's safe to say young would have beaten him anytime thereafter for many years IMO.

So no i don't place a lot of emphasis on the young KO. Don't get me wrong it's still impressive power wise as is dropping Jimmy but it's hardly important in the big scheme of things and KO's over quality opposition.

 

Jesus Christ man. I've seen Whitehurst and Bethea. I've seen each of the Williams fights four, five, six times. The Machen fight three. Each of the Patterson fights three times. Each of the Ali fights four times. The Martin fight twice.

 

You really need to watch a lot more Liston and take it all in.

 

Oh wow, I never noticed that before. It is kind of significant that he did floor Young twice though, something no one else ever did to Young.

 

I'm passing the Liston education over to you now Swag!