Well due to not easy to see what there actually happens ( Valuev is damn large ) maybe this fight might had been scored as a draw and they might had rematch. Vs Holyfield. I didn't had intent to mark Valuev as goat or unbeatable. He just is marquee symbol of reality : very large HW boxers era. Large giant appeared very durable and tough, I think that he per se had not bad skills. His problem was that he turned into very slow, surprisingly slow boxer and yeah, he then had big problems to land anything significant on boxers. He also is some symbol how looks very slow boxer. I don't think that Klit might KO prime Valuev, he is too large for him. To outbox yeah but not to KO. Giant was large.
I liked Valuev. But I don’t see him beating either Wlad or Ali. You initially said that Valuev would have beaten Ali due to his huge size. But what Ali would have lacked in size, he’d have made up for in speed, skills and reflexes. Valuev would have found it very difficult to have landed anything significant on Ali. Whereas Valuev would have presented Ali with an easy target.
Well, by " beat " I not rarerly mean to KO or TKO boxer ( but without TKO stoppage due to cuts ) and cos Valuev appeared very durable giant during his career I do not see how he might had been get KOed by Witali or Ali. Since I use this meaning and assumption if they WILL LAND, then ofc Vaulev had more chances. The big problem for Vaulev really was " TO LAND " when he turned to very slow boxer from already slow boxer. " beat " for me not rarerly is KO/TKO win ( and not due to cuts ) not MD, SD or UD win.
This is a great post Loudon! Surrix you *have* identified some nationalistic bias towards Ali. However you yourself have a bit of that dis-ease, & sometimes name call. You should listen carefully to the post above. Not that we are saying you cannot pick Wlad & be objective, but you are doing the same thing-claiming that ALL who prefer Ali/think he is better in itself, rmust reflect bias. Using what some CWs rehydrate in the ring to as a definition of what is a real or natural HW *minimum* reflects modernist bias. That is irrational man. When guys get to a certain critical mass at HW-as in the many examples above (I will just correct that Byrd beat Vitali-size, which matters overall, reaches a point of at best diminishing returns. Sometimes it is harder to beat the HWs your size or SMALLER, as in the many examples shown above, & many others throughout pugilistic history. As you can see with Jack Demsey & Joe Louis. When you are naturally well over 200, you *might* be able to beat anyone. Some guys are absolutely Dwarfed in height & length like prime Tyson, might be anyone. Although against the very greatest huge HWs, he would be at a disadvantage. Please be the rare poster here who-in this case ironically-is *big enough* to recognize his own bias.
I see weight in weights for top ranked HW boxers and they are now all larger than 220 lbs. Lewis, Wlad, Vitaly, Ruiz, A.J, Fury, etc and etc, ofc also Valuev. Boxers are LARGE at HW in modern days. Larger than even 220 lbs. Povetkin had been called as small HW when he was in his prime for example. He was 224-225-228 lbs. While Liston at 220 lbs in 60 ies had been very large HW boxer and supposed to beat up Ali like he did with Patterson who was 190 lber. Ali was 215 lbs vs Liston and vuala, Liston is defeated despite ppl called that Liston will destroy him and he was underdog according to U.S media research in their first fight.
You are right in most of the sizes (although Ali was not 215 vs. Liston, & he was just under for what you meant to type, "Chuvalo". Most of what you say here is repeated yourself. What you thus far fail to grasp is that what is the typical size of recent HWs is NOT does NOT make other HWs who are not as big not natural HWs! You move it up to what it became when they create a CW division (which increased slightly to 200 lbs...Fine. Then after then until now, over 200 lbs. without being at all overweight, without being unnaturally pumped up, absent any need for PEDs... That is a True HW. Someone like Ali may be small compared to the largest cohort, the recent years. But it *is* modernist bias to use what became more common later to define what is a real, true, natural HW. It makes no sense to either use anything that *was* called HW, *or* the SHW sizes common today, as a natural HW. What is a HW has changed. But what that does not mean if one easily qualifies, while fit & natural but is not near or actual SHW size, they are not just as much HWs as say a Valuev. Only difference is that the bigger you are at the top level, the more pure size *tends* to be an advantage, not boxing taoent.
Great post. If he wants to class Ali as being a small HW, then that’s fine. If he wants to note that the K’s as well as Lewis and Fury are significantly bigger, that’s also fine. The ignorance is when he refers to Ali as a CW. And I don’t know why he does that. Ali was a genuine HW. He was 6’3, with a 78” reach, weighing anywhere between 210-230 pounds.
No he was. There is U.S source with photo copy from weight ins protocol. I do not use just rumours from forums. When I talk about boxers weight I use A. during long time well established western media B. official protocols. I do not have intent in general discuss about boxer A or B or C or D. I'm interested about boxers weight cos maybe during some 5 years I will wrote book about boxer's size. Statistical purpose. Document listing physical measurements for Sonny Liston and Cassius Clay | National Museum of African American History and Culture Guys, I do not know will allow this website to use this link from western source with copy of weight in protocol. U.S source.
That’s a very interesting document and could well be right, but seen as you are so interested in weight you do know Ali fought a few times under the age of 30yrs in the late 220lbs notably against Mathis 229lbs https://images.app.goo.gl/qSeA4BWipcmdDm5v6 not exactly fat, decent shape, this weight is only 7lbs lighter than Joshua was at 236lbs against ruiz 2( one of your super heavies) also against Mac foster weighing 226-227lbs, as I can appreciate this is still reasonably light for a modern heavyweight it’s still a decent weight so with Ali’s height of 6ft3 reach of 80inch according to your document incredible speed and reflexes, good chin, great ring IQ and peerless resume surely you can see how he could be a match for any heavyweight past or present regardless of size.
Yeah. If you can post links to sources with weight ins protocols I will be thankful. They even does not need to be famous boxers.
In general anything. My main target is to compare size/ height / weight between athletes from different decades. Basketball and HW boxing looks very suitable. It is more difficult to get measurements about sprinters and marathon runners because they does not have mandatory weight ins listed. While HW boxers despite does not have limits, are doing weight ins and etc. Basketball players are more represented in media and therefore, like this. For me are usable also not well known boxers who did not had fought great names.
