Yeah, but he was going up because of money. He was going up to make money. I don't mean that all of them couldn't control their eating AND they all were moving about for money. The point is this - they are moving around for reasons that Marciano clearly wouldn't have to move around for. Secondly, the names you've selected support the notion that fighters of this size can't successfully move up in weight - their collective disaster against ranked men underlines this. So for what reason do you presume it is most likely that Marciano would move from 160 or 168 up to 175, then 200, then Heavyweight? What is your reason for believing this to be true?
Yeah, absolutely, it's only "some" as I said, but I don't see fans of other fighters that attract "fans" of such bizarre extremities.
I think we are also forgetting the Light Heavyweight Title at the time of the 40s when Rocky turned Pro was stuck in a circle jerk between a handful of very popular fighters. Meanwhile Ezzard Charles was taking on all comers at HW. If Rocky committed to a 175 run, he'd likely still be waiting for a title shot...until at least Moore won the belt...but hindsight is 20/20. Rock's management made the obvious and correct decision, he could secure a HW title shot much quickly, earn more money, and at 180ish lbs with elite power he would be competitive with a division of similar sized men despite the reach and height he would be surrendering. I'd say Marciano was purposely matched against smaller heavies as any good team would do. The big men he fought were journeymen and trial horses in the event he would have to one day face a bigger threat. Louis had a 30 lb advantage at least but a guaranteed title shot was on the line, so they took the gamble and it paid off. That's why I say...Marciano is a threat to almost anyone in a one off but the threads asking him to run a gauntlet against men some 20-40 lbs heavier...he would break down. No fighter with a management worth a damn would allow that. I think the Rock could beef up and still be effective as power and durability are such keys to being successful at heavyweight. I just feel routinely going against giants, he'd start taking more punishment from heavier men then he'd like. It's asking too much. Yet people push these threads because they get off on the argument or imagining Rocky losing... something that never happened or will happen.
This is essentially non-responsive and non-sequential and I'll take it to mean you have no defence for your statement and thereby no answer to supply. Dismissed.
Norris dropped into the cruiserweights because he got robbed in the Tucker fight. The names I selected were examples you asked of that came through the weights. But Tyson and Tua were as short and developed at that time too. Are you saying they were not successful? my stand point is that modern fighters would be lighter and therefore more suitable to Marciano sized fighters in earlier eras. Lewis might have got no bigger than say Valdes or Baker. Likewise, Marciano sized fighters could bulk up to the extent that Burt Cooper and Orlin Norris did if they were within an era where guys like Cooper and Norris were competitive at HW. Tyson and Tua too. why couldn’t Marciano have been a career cruiserweight until somebody like Holyfield or Moorer became heavyweight champion? Or Jihn Ruiz who Jones challenged? Granted, The more modern the era the less options Marciano has.
Can you prove that? And then back up to heavyweight for what reason? Do you think Marciano would turn professional weighing 200 plus pounds?
well his next bout was at cruiserweight. I assume so. Perhaps as a former CW champion Norris decided he’d made as much money as he could at cruiser and fancied another pop at heavyweight? Later he went back down again. A lot would have depended on what was achievable in the training. I have no idea. Depends on the training regimen and what the options were depending on the year he turns pro. We know fighters can carry more functional weight.
So in a discussion about the specific reasons for fighters moving between weight classes, you made a reason up? Let me try again. Your response to this post: Read: What did you mean by "more than likely"? What did you mean by "done what Orlin Norris did."? What did you mean by "seems the most logical"? What makes it the "the most logical" in your opinion?
I’m saying the same thing. what did You mean by this if you didn’t want me to list them? Did you ask for successful dominating heavyweights? what do you mean by this? Guys as short as Marciano were career heavyweights after Marciano retired yes or No? So long as there is a Joe Frazier or Mike Tyson why not a Marciano too? apart from Norris. Apart from Tyson. Apart from Frazier and apart from Tua. You can’t say there isn’t scope for a fighter Marcianos size to bulk up with functional mass the way they did even before turning pro in later eras. what do you mean by even asking that when I have already used Orlin Norris career weights as an example of a fighter the size of Rocky going up and down in weight to suit each particular assignment. you are asking a lot of questions here. I have made my point quite clear. Fighters can bulk up. When fighters could bulk up in a functional way they began to bulk up.p even before they turned pro.
No, you are not. This is absolutely false. Saying "Marciano could bulk up" is absolutely factual. Saying "More than likely he would have done what Orlin Norris did. That seems the most logical" is much more mired in opinion. But perhaps you can explain these opinions. Let's find out! I notice you haven't answered any of them. As I said at the outset, non-responsive, non-sequential, I'll take your inability to answer these questions as an acknowledgment that you've no interest in defending your statement because it can't be defended.
And what exactly is your statement? That fighters less than six foot represent too small a percentage at heavyweight in modern times to be seriously considered? You don’t think Marciano could be heavier in modern times like Orlin Norris was? I think the example of Norris is logical. why couldn’t Marciano, at some point of a modern career, say 1980s-1990s have became every bit as big as Norris was at his biggest point? Why couldn’t he? That guy started bigger than Marciano, then became a successful NABF heavyweight champion, then came right down in weight (to what Marciano had been) and was successful as a cruiserweight champion. Then repeated it by going back up to become a heavyweight journeyman then went back down again to cruiserweight. His last weight was lower than his first weight. seems to me it is logical to look at what was possible in the years Norris fought and decide there are more physical options open to Marciano. We know Rocky can fight below 180. We know he fought as high as 192. In a later era it’s possible he can start at 199 and build up from there, because other did. or he can start lower, around the weight he did fight at and bulk up at some opportune time to any number of weights that Norris was able to do. As far as I am concerned Norris is the blue print to what is achievable from a comparable physical frame. We know he could do this Because Norris did. That’s why his example, the example of the options of the Norris career shows, is logical to me. Now, we don’t know how successful Marciano can be at all these different weights that he never fought at. But there is a good chance a more modern Marciano can still be a great fighter with some extra functional weight.
