Who Punched Harder: Deontay Wilder or Rocky Marciano?

More proof that you seem incapable of simply giving him credit. No human on Earth would have an easy time punching with a broken hand, let alone winning a fight with one.

You haven't owned me once in this thread or any other.

Areola wasn't that great to begin with but he was very durable and it was a staggering display of power on Wilder's part to beat the same opponent with a broken hand faster than Vitali did. This isn't rocket science.

So Fury was fat and unfit at 256 but in great shape at 273?

cool

Man Machine and Rulesmakeitinteresting are not Marciano haters, they are very reasonable level headed posters.

Reinhardt, Fistsoffury and Moggy94 haven't made any sort of indication that they hate Marciano. Swag does not hate him either and has actually picked Rocky to win against several boxers.

Mrkoolkevin doesn't hate him either. He literally posts articles and interviews from that time period, primary sources from trainers, writers and boxers who faced him and simply presents the information then gets called a hater somehow. In fact, he provides more credible info backed by evidence in his posts than most people here.

The only ones who liked my posts who openly have disdain for Rocky are Seamus and Pat M. Seamus is both smarter and more knowledgeable than you.

My point wasn't that popularity=winning the debate. My point was simply that nobody in this thread seems to think you are owning me other than you.

It doesn't matter how the injury occurred. Stopping a big durable opponent with a broken hand in a relatively short amount of time is insane. The fact we keep going back and forth on such a simple concept tells me you are either dumb, completely lack objectivity when it comes to Wilder, or both.

seems to be deeper than that when you go on for 5 pages going way off topic attacking him for things that have nothing to do with the discussion.

There is no equivalency here at all. Vitali lost and Wilder won after injuring himself. All this indicates to me is Wilder both hits harder and has more heart than Vitlai if that's the route you want to go and that they both apparently have poor punching form

I wrote all of that several pages back. You ignored it or you simply didn't want to respond.

I have been trying to get you to debate that specific point for literally days. There isn't much separating Rocky, a man who supposedly is great on the inside yet misses more than 30 punches on the inside against a slow old opponent, and wilder who misses a lot at his preferred range.

You do not see Wilder swinging uppercuts like a bowler or throwing right hands like a baseball pitcher. A lot of Wilder's right hands are actually very straight with frightening accuracy, like the ones that demolished Brezeale and Ortiz. Wilder is also much more patient than Rocky ever was.

Not in Wilder's latest fights. His form is a lot better and even Teddy Atlas complimented him for using a strategy similar to Ingemar Johanson to beat Ortiz in the rematch.

No, because I will still have 6, 7+ people agreeing with me so even at double it won't be "obvious" whose winning the debate.

Again, I didn't even bring this up until you claimed you were owning me based on literally nothing. I think 70's fan whose a notorious cheer leader for old school fighters is the only one who liked your posts when we were exchanging back and forth.

No surprise there.

 

I'm not a cheer leader for all oldschool fighters, I like only a few of them. I'm not even Marciano fan.

I just like that there is another poster who finds tons of inconsistencies in your posts. A lot of people like your posts because they are emotionally attached to this topic, but I'm not. I just find BCS8 argumentation far more compelling and he pointed out some solid points here.

 

What compelling and solid points did he make?

I am genuinely curious.

 

That explains a lot

 

OK sport. I guess regular humans seem superhuman to you.

Buddy, I have the receipt. May have to return ya for a refund though, looks like I bought damaged goods

Again, let's erect a statue to Berbick for demolishing Ali. Monumental win, right next to Wilder's win over Arreola.

Correct. He'd had a crash weight loss before the first fight and a proper camp with proper training before the second.

So, argumentum ad populum, then? Bravo

Your argument tells me that you're trying to artificially inflate Wilder. He wasn't injured before the fight. He started falling to pieces of his own accord during the fight. There's a difference.

The equivelancy is that both injuries occurred during the fight.

No you have been attributing things to me for days that I never said.

Well, the difference being that Wilder fought Szpilka, Arreola and Dustin freaking Nichols and Marciano fought every top guy available to him including bona fide ATG's.

The difference is that Wilder is actually not that good at his preferred range and, apart from missing quite a bit, is unable to keep fights at that range. Guys are able to close him down or, as in the case of Washington, outjab him handily. Marciano knew that he couldn't fight at range and has no problem in forcing his fight on his opponents. He often used his impetus to bull into the opponent and force them off balance and out of stance. Moreover he weaved his head in conjunction with his wild technique in order to not get hit. Wilder by contrast is an easy target for anybody that dares brave the power. There's a reason Wilder was terrified of Povetkin. Povetkin likes to fight in the wheelhouse and that would stifle Wilder's ranged punching.

Forgive me for not being bowled over by the Ortiz wins. Luis is a good boxer but not a great one, and he's bloody old.

Oh, OK, so likes don't mean anything after all? Gotcha.

 

I'm in this^ camp.

Marciano is also one of my favorite fighters, but even the Rock had his physical limitations.

I find it does him no great service to back him to the hilt, in the face of absurd comparisons.

 

1. That you shouldn't compare Vitali's win over Arreola to Wilder's for once. Arreola was ever anything special, but he was in visibly worse condition. This is not a proof of Wilder hitting harder than Vitali, even though he does hit harder without any doubts.
2. That you try to convince people that BCS8 said Rocky was "clever" puncher, he never said that. He simply said that he picked his shots better than Wilder, which doesn't say anything more than that. You're being dishonest, not the first time by the way.

I also have some problems with his approach - for example, you never said that Wilder's win over Arreola is better than Vitali's, but using it as a proof of punching power is weak argument.

Finally, words like "14 years old girl" is just stupid, using ad personum arguments is the worst you can do in real discussion. It brings nothing valuable and makes you look stupid, so try avoiding that in future.

 

I am NOT a Marciano "hater" by any means. He's in my top 10 ATGs (sometimes as high as 3), as well as my top 10 favorite fighters of all time. Up until about a year ago, I was an avid defender of his. I then saw all this revisionism surrounding him, trying to make him out to be a flawless God, and seeing him routinely picked to defeat behemoths who have a foot on him, 60+ pounds, and are also faster, more skilled, more powerful, and have every conceivable advantage, which of course means nothing as super Rocky will always "find a way".

So to sum up, I love real life Rocky. The short, slow, crude, unskilled, ATG who had the heart of a ****ing lion, and limitless stamina, who was able to rise to the top of his era despite his many flaws, and able to develop a style to mask his many shortcomings, and overcome the odds. Quite possibly, the greatest overachiever in history.

I hate ESB Rocky, this flawless demi-god who's "deceptively hard to hit" (some have even gone as far as to laughably to make a case via compubox stats that Rocky had the best defense in history), and effortlessly defeats men like Ali, Liston, Foreman, Tyson, Lewis, Wlad, etc who real life Rocky wouldn't stand a chance.

 

1-wilder having a broken hand neutralized areola being worse than in the vitali fight.

2-we already cleared this up several pages ago. He DID use the word clever which I objected to and I also objected to him claiming he was more clever than Wilder.

3-No I wasn't being dishonest. I've been very direct and clear in what I meant throughout this whole thread.

4-do you not understand A) how incredibly painful and difficult it is to punch with a broken hand and B) how good Areola's chin is? There is nothing weak in using a fighter stopping a durable opponent with a horrible injury as evidence of power.

5-I don't need your advice on how to debate, I have literally taken a debate class. And it's very strange you a problem with my ad hominems but ignored his logic fallacies, snarky comments, and emojis. I call a spade a spade.

 

Fair comment.

 

This is an interesting distinction. And I love how some of the things you love about Rocky are what I love also about Mr. Frazier.

 

Oh Frazier is my favorite fighter of all time. Certified badass and a ****ing warrior!

 

"Regular" humans win knocking out huge 230+ men with a broken hand on a regular basis?

http://getmemetemplates.com/wp-cont...3c6281d9423f9f26fc718a5b577db85d-1024x473.jpg

I have explained this to you 10x now that I am not talking about legacy. It's incredible how dense you are.

berbick did not ko Ali nor did he have a broken hand. Areola was not completely shot like Ali and went on to have several more fights looking competitive so you fail even when bringing up a poor comparison.

He had 2 fights before the 1st Wilder fight and only weighed 2 lbs less than his previous weight going into the match. They clearly didn't think weight was an issue or they would have burned some more. Before the layoff Fury had SEVERAL fights where he was a 250+ pound lardass.

He clearly ballooned up to 270 in the rematch with the intention of bullying, smothering, and clinching wilder to death. And in no universe is 270+ lbs a "fit" athlete, 80% of Fury's game plan had nothing to do with ring smarts or technique.

If standing in a room by yourself claiming you won while 7 people in another room are laughing can be ignored, then yes, bravo to you for "winning" and "owning me'.

On which points do you think you trumped me? Because I asked 70's fan and was pretty disappointment. In YOUR mind what did you say that left me utterly stumped and unable to object or form a counter argument? Hint: It never happened but I'm asking anyway.

I'm not inflating anything. He broke his hand and still knocked a guy out who was known for being very durable. The feat speaks for itself I don't have to inflate anything

So?

What ****ing difference does it make if you broke your hand before a fight or during a fight and yet you were still such a hard hitter that you knocked your opponent out anyway? Do you not realize how ****ing stupid you sound shifting the conversation to diminish the win because Wilder apparently injured himself? This is like saying "he injured his foot during the race because of poor form, who cares that he won with an injured foot".

Honestly.

I simply quoted you and then objected to you using the word clever.

Again, terrible reading comprehension on your part.

The irony here is that you have LITERALLY been editing my post when you reply to get a reaction out of me.

Do you really want to go down this route? You do realize Rocky had literally doezens of guys as bad as Areola or worse with losing records, multiple KO losses, long layoffs, moving up from light heavy, being in their late 30's, etc?

Lastarza and Layne were like the only prime ranked boxers he faced who weren't heavily shopworn. The lastarza fight was incredibly controversial and Layne ended up becoming a C level journeyman.

Povetkin was so confident he ruined his chances to fight Wilder by getting busted for PEDs twice.

I don't really care if you're impressed by Wilder's win over Ortiz. I was simply informing you that plenty of people far more knowledgeable than you were impressed with his performances. You have demonstrated an incredible lack of objectivity, logic, and reading comprehension. You fail to grasp basic concepts after they were explained to you half a dozen times. You claim knocking out an opponent with a broken hand is no big deal which tells me that attempting to convince you of Wilder's skill is an utterly pointless task. If Vitali won a fight with a broken hand you'd be busting nuts.

More straw man arguments from the man---oops, I mean girl, who hates being misquoted. Why am I not surprised?

 

If you took debate class, then you don't remember much from them... Yes, using emojis is less problematic than ad hominem/ad personam.

 

This is clearly a waste of time. Only on ESB will the vast majority unanimously agree on a subject and yet the thread gets dragged on for 9 pages.

And in many cases, it will be CERTAIN fighters who happen to be the subject of the discussion almost every time. Their names often pop up somehow and trigger people and it goes on and on even when people have literally agreed that they are not winning.

What it boils down to is people refusing to simply acknowledge a fighter they dislike. They cannot simply write "that's true" and leave it at that. And often threads get derailed because certain posters simply want to prove how smart they are, argue just for the sake of arguing, or to seek attention/enjoy the chaos.

The fact you have a joker in this thread already admitting Rocky doesn't hit as hard as Wilder and yet continues to argue on multiple irrelevant subjects for multiple pages is all the proof you need.